countdown to no-smoking thread

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Just in case anyone is hitting this cold and not aware of what is going on.

LANSING, Mich. -- Most Michigan residents will find their work places, restaurants and bars smoke-free beginning May 1 now that Gov. Jennifer Granholm has signed a smoking ban into law.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21996660/detail.html

I have to admit I had no clue. *hangs head in shame*

[candyman]

So what sort of fine system is Michigan getting then? In Wisconsin they are not going to fine the bars at all as long as proper warnings are posted they are just going to fine the person in violation of the law.

If Michigan has the same regulations concerning fines its easy to get around it. Most bars here will sell you ashtrays from about 3-4 bucks a piece. The money gets placed into a pool to help pay your fines should you get busted. The pools at most bars are getting quite large because enforcement has been a big problem for the local authorities to say the least...but thats what happens when you up the CFM of the ventilation fans enough to pull someones pants off. As long as the owner and workers or the bar along with its regulars make a stand the people that tend to piss and moan get the picture after a while...but since they really only show up one night a week for a single fruity mixed drink who cares?

At least I can still smoke in my car...but they want to change that.

At least I can still dictate how much salt is in the food I eat...but they want to change that too.

Well at least I can make decisions on building materials and methods for my home as long as they meet codes...oh fuck they changed that already!

See? The great snowball has started rolling and is going to eat you all!!!!!

[IsleofRhodesEnt]

I have it on good authority that C.C. plans to open a room just for smoking and it will be legal because it will be a cigar bar. I understand you non smokers who hate smoking but supporting this is supporting government control. It should be left to the individual establishment.

they have to make enough profit selling tobacco PER month for that to work, and honestly, CC is over-priced now.

electronic Ciggies

The link above is what many people will switch too. The great thing about it is that you can use this in non-smoking areas, and no one can do anything legally to you, because it's not covered by any ban, regulation, etc.

Also, I don't think you can get Lung Cancer from Liquid Nicotine, and people complaining about THAT "second hand smoke" will be laughed at.

[Destroit]

*Laughs* It doesnt matter, Detroit isnt going to enforce it, nor will a lot of places.

Nor should they . I don't even smoke anymore except on rare occasion but I support being able to smoke in public businesses. I'm for smoking in bars; I am a little mixed on smoking in restaurants.

And trust me, I do feel sympathies for non-smokers who do not want to be exposed to smoke. Problem is that you guys obviously don't have any fairness or empathy toward smokers. Respect should be a two-way street. Since non-smokers blatantly act as though their rights/privileges are more important than other American citizens, I don't respect any laws coming out of their selfishness.

There should be a law where appropriate accommodations are made for BOTH parties, not just one or the other.

That's why I vowed from now on if I'm forced to stand outside of a bar to smoke, you best bet I'm blowing it at people walking in and out. They wanted to play rudely and in a disrespectful way, I can play that way too.

Nor should they . I don't even smoke anymore except on rare occasion but I support being able to smoke in public businesses. I'm for smoking in bars; I am a little mixed on smoking in restaurants.

And trust me, I do feel sympathies for non-smokers who do not want to be exposed to smoke. Problem is that you guys obviously don't have any fairness or empathy toward smokers. Respect should be a two-way street. Since non-smokers blatantly act as though their rights/privileges are more important than other American citizens, I don't respect any laws coming out of their selfishness.

There should be a law where appropriate accommodations are made for BOTH parties, not just one or the other.

That's why I vowed from now on if I'm forced to stand outside of a bar to smoke, you best bet I'm blowing it at people walking in and out. They wanted to play rudely and in a disrespectful way, I can play that way too.

[candyman]

Fuck the E-cigarette! None of the different brands or versions of that shit are approved by anyone nor is anything in them regulated.

Yes they DO contain carcinogens.

No the nicotine is not regulated therefore dosage is unknown...not a risk I want to take with nicotine.

They come in different flavors...something banned in cigarettes because of the appeal to kids...yay more kids addicted to nicotine!

The only real studies done on the E-cigarettes have been done by the FDA and other associated groups...THE SAME people that put down cigarettes and started the bans rolling...

[Rev.Reverence]

E-CIG UPDATE: IMPORTANT*****

If you still have your TONSILS IN

You CAN NOT use an E-CIG REGULARLY!

The vapors will clog the pores in your tonsils..

..by over watering them..

...& give you a major case of tonsillitis...

Brother Duck, almost died a few weeks ago...

[Rev.Reverence]

Oh..& my understanding of cigar bars, is that they will only be Grand-fathered in...so, good luck with that

[candyman]

Oh..& my understanding of cigar bars, is that they will only be Grand-fathered in...so, good luck with that

Wait Michigan is keeping its cigar bars? Damn...lucky bastards...our cigar bars are getting closed up yet they are leaving the hookah bars up for some weirds reason...but even at the hookah bar you have to step outside if you want a cigarette!

I cannot even understand why cigar bars are even an issue...its a single purpose place which means it deals exclusively in tobacco...if you hate smoking and either work there or go in there on occasion you must be a relative of the pet rock...

[n0Mad]

Oh..& my understanding of cigar bars, is that they will only be Grand-fathered in...so, good luck with that

Yes. Existing cigar bars are allowed to exist but no new cigar bars will be licensed.

[TitsMcGee]

I think that's just a cop out excuse that many county execs are using. There are significant tax revenues coming from bars to local establishments, I presume, and they don't want to see that revenue drop. It's not like you need someone in every bar all the time. Just the threat of an inspector randomly coming in should do the work. Oh... and the fact that it's law.

We're pretty damn poor up here.

Oh and the person who was wondering about the fines, for the first offense it's a $500 dollar fine for the establishment and the person smoking. Also the ban mean no smoking on the property at all, which means the place can get a fine if someone is in the parking lot in their car having a smoke.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

another day closer, bwahahahahahaha...

[torn asunder]

That's why I vowed from now on if I'm forced to stand outside of a bar to smoke, you best bet I'm blowing it at people walking in and out. They wanted to play rudely and in a disrespectful way, I can play that way too.

i'll tell you what - if someone intentionally blows smoke at me as i'm walking in somewhere, there likely to get their ass kicked. why the hell do you think it's ok in any way to treat people with such disrespect? people who, for all you know, had absolutely nothing to do with this, and maybe even were against it? that's so immature it's pitiful.

[Msterbeau]

i'll tell you what - if someone intentionally blows smoke at me as i'm walking in somewhere, there likely to get their ass kicked. why the hell do you think it's ok in any way to treat people with such disrespect? people who, for all you know, had absolutely nothing to do with this, and maybe even were against it? that's so immature it's pitiful.

+1

[Hellion]

It's more Nazi like in California,and I bet loitering tickets and harrassment by cops will occure for people standing in the road,let alone you'll have the belligerant drinker/smokers(jocks/preps)mouth off the cops that will become a big problem as well.

[freydis]

It's more Nazi like in California,and I bet loitering tickets and harrassment by cops will occure for people standing in the road,let alone you'll have the belligerant drinker/smokers(jocks/preps)mouth off the cops that will become a big problem as well.

There's far worse (and legal) things that could be done, and people are making such a big deal about this.

At least there's not the widespread use of "random police stops" like there are in New York. People get stopped on the street, questioned, and often searched for no real reason. I'd say there are plenty of more serious things to worry about than a ban on smoking in businesses.

[candyman]

We're pretty damn poor up here.

Oh and the person who was wondering about the fines, for the first offense it's a $500 dollar fine for the establishment and the person smoking. Also the ban mean no smoking on the property at all, which means the place can get a fine if someone is in the parking lot in their car having a smoke.

They should not be able to fine the establishment if proper warnings are given...sounds like a good excuse for making money there...if the bar lets the people smoke then I guess the workers don't really care for the ban which defeats the whole argument for worker protection in that bar...

I am damn sure going to step outside with my beer too. It is my purchase and I am going to protect my beer from theft of tempering which people even attempt when you are right next to your beer anyways.

And yeah I will probably end up blowing smoke in the faces of a few people. However I will use discretion which is something you don't often hear of like deciding to blanket all establishments under regulations that don't apply to them all. If you talk shit to me about the ban while walking in the least you should expect is smoke in the face for acting like a bitch...ramp up the shit talking if you must but remember that I brought my beer out with me and I only drink from bottles or mugs which REALLY HURT when they make contact with your skull. Other people that will have smoke blown at them are people that smell like BO, the dumped a whole bottle of cologne/perfume on themselves, and drunk people because drunk people need not worry about lung cancer...I couldn't smell you people when the bar had smoke in it or when I could chase you away with my could so now I will give you a bath BEFORE you go in so you don't torture the bar tenders or the patrons.

Remember that it doesn't matter which side you are on DO NOT act like a dick because that will start shit. If you act like a dick expect the other person to act like a dick...and you are in a bar so there might be a fight. In bars Karma like to take shape in the form of fists, beer bottles, beer mugs, pool cues, billiard balls, bar stools, beer signs, neon signs, belts, toilet seats (only saw that one time though), full cans of beer, and sometimes steel toe boots.

Sore losers are bad but sore winners are worse...act like a dick to smokers if you want but the ban can only protect you from smoke and not the beatdown that you encourage when you act like a retarded dick.

[Rev.Reverence]

i'll tell you what - if someone intentionally blows smoke at me as i'm walking in somewhere, there likely to get their ass kicked. why the hell do you think it's ok in any way to treat people with such disrespect? people who, for all you know, had absolutely nothing to do with this, and maybe even were against it? that's so immature it's pitiful.

...quoted for truthiness...

[Hellion]

I catch anyone trying to tamper with my drink At any bar/club will get assaulted(ass beating),PS no one on here.places hopefully will know that,unless you take your drink out with you when you smoke,which is the best alternative.

[candyman]

I catch anyone trying to tamper with my drink At any bar/club will get assaulted(ass beating),PS no one on here.places hopefully will know that,unless you take your drink out with you when you smoke,which is the best alternative.

Yeah they better change the laws regarding people with drinks outside the bars...or build a damn patio or something otherwise I foresee many problems in the future. I turn around for a quick pool shot and already have at least one stranger try to tap my beer and then I got nothing but foam everywhere...no way I leave my beer alone for 3 min!

Now ladies this brings up a really serious point...well this is only for the ladies that smoke. If you step out for a smoke TAKE YOUR DRINK or have a very good friend watch it. People try to slip shit when you are there and we can't have the situation become worse by people stepping out for a smoke only to come back to a spiked drink. Whatever you are drinking from should be in your hands as much as possible but ALWAYS in the sight of you or your good friends. Yes...you can take your drink into the bathroom.

[Destroit]

I understand you non smokers who hate smoking but supporting this is supporting government control.

Thank you for being one of the only people I know wise enough to realize this BULLSHIT ban is NOT about being smoke-free or healthy. It's about control and money. Period.

And all these non-smokers are going to say "it's not my problem" or "I'm glad" until the govt finds some bullshit reason to ban what THEY like. I love how almost all Americans seem to think it's okay for the government to enforce liberties and freedoms restrictions on other groups of people but the SECOND it happens to THEM...THAT is when they get mad.

If one of us is wronged by our government, every American citizen is equally wronged by our government. We need to actually start realizing this again as a collective community.

My viewpoint is that I want both non-smokers and smokers to be happy. Non-smokers don't give two fucks about what smokers want. Selfish selfish selfish! Absolutely appalling :. I was willing to work with you, ya know, why won't non-smokers give us the same respect? But no, now hatred is created because non-smokers didn't give a fuck or think about ANYONE but themselves...and now hostile segregation is created. I say hostile because I plan to be hostile about it. So "hostile" may not include all smokers (or casual smokers or people who support smokers) but it covers me (and I don't mean PHYSICAL hostility, I try to avoid getting arrested at all costs).

Thank you for being one of the only people I know wise enough to realize this BULLSHIT ban is NOT about being smoke-free or healthy. It's about control and money. Period.

And all these non-smokers are going to say "it's not my problem" or "I'm glad" until the govt finds some bullshit reason to ban what THEY like. I love how almost all Americans seem to think it's okay for the government to enforce liberties and freedoms restrictions on other groups of people but the SECOND it happens to THEM...THAT is when they get mad.

If one of us is wronged by our government, every American citizen is equally wronged by our government. We need to actually start realizing this again as a collective community.

If one of us is wronged by our government, every American citizen is equally wronged by our government. We need to actually start realizing this again as a collective community.

My viewpoint is that I want both non-smokers and smokers to be happy. Non-smokers don't give two fucks about what smokers want. Selfish selfish selfish! Absolutely appalling :. I was willing to work with you, ya know, why won't non-smokers give us the same respect? But no, now hatred is created because non-smokers didn't give a fuck or think about ANYONE but themselves...and now hostile segregation is created. I say hostile because I plan to be hostile about it. So "hostile" may not include all smokers (or casual smokers or people who support smokers) but it covers me (and I don't mean PHYSICAL hostility, I try to avoid getting arrested at all costs).

[Msterbeau]

My viewpoint is that I want both non-smokers and smokers to be happy. Non-smokers don't give two fucks about what smokers want. Selfish selfish selfish! Absolutely appalling :. I was willing to work with you, ya know, why won't non-smokers give us the same respect? But no, now hatred is created because non-smokers didn't give a fuck or think about ANYONE but themselves...and now hostile segregation is created. I say hostile because I plan to be hostile about it. So "hostile" may not include all smokers (or casual smokers or people who support smokers) but it covers me (and I don't mean PHYSICAL hostility, I try to avoid getting arrested at all costs).

You seriously think that smokers give a rats ass about non-smokers? If they did, they would restrict their smoking to private places or be a lot more courteous than most of them are. Non-smokers have had to be the ones who appear more aggressive because we're the ones who have to put up with someone elses unhealthy and unpleasant habit. My not smoking doesn't hurt a thing nor do people say: "Please stop not smoking, it irritates my eyes/lungs".

[candyman]

You seriously think that smokers give a rats ass about non-smokers? If they did, they would restrict their smoking to private places or be a lot more courteous than most of them are. Non-smokers have had to be the ones who appear more aggressive because we're the ones who have to put up with someone elses unhealthy and unpleasant habit. My not smoking doesn't hurt a thing nor do people say: "Please stop not smoking, it irritates my eyes/lungs".

Dude I get scolded by someone for lumping all non-smokers together, which I wasn't trying to do, and now you throw all of us smokers under the fucking bus? WOW!

Look, smoking has been in bars since...well it has been that way for a while now and I think it would seem pretty obvious that bars are not health clubs and even if it is a good bar it tend to be a place where only certain people go. These certain people are called regulars. Now, if a bar has a bunch of regulars that smoke including the workers (I am using one of my home bars as a reference here) and the owner which has been going on since...well I think we figured out that smoking has been in bars for a while. Now a non-smoker walks into the bar...what now? Well, if he is a regular he probably has the respect of the other regulars and the workers and owner so they probably worked something out with his. However if he is NOT a regular then this is not his bar therefore if he does not like what is going on he can pretty much suck a dick. If you aren't at the bar more than once a week you are not paying the bills for that bar so why the hell should they cater to you?

Its not we don't give a rats ass about non-smokers...its just that in areas like where I live smokers and non-smokers have lived in harmony all of these years and we STILL DO! As for the few bars we have that are non-smoking...well they make a nice quiet place to read a book and drink a beer on a weekend when all the other bars are packed. I am so sorry that you cannot coexist with the people that attend the local establishments in your area...but that is your fucking problem and there is no need to pass a state wide regulation that fucks over areas that DO NOT have the same problem as you!

[Destroit]

You seriously think that smokers give a rats ass about non-smokers? If they did, they would restrict their smoking to private places or be a lot more courteous than most of them are. Non-smokers have had to be the ones who appear more aggressive because we're the ones who have to put up with someone elses unhealthy and unpleasant habit. My not smoking doesn't hurt a thing nor do people say: "Please stop not smoking, it irritates my eyes/lungs".

Right, but you have to keep in mind that it was that way FOREVER. I'm not saying it was right but back 30 years ago I would be willing to bet there were as many, probably more, smokers than there were non-smokers. We haven't even been aware fully until probably the 80's-90's just how bad smoking is. I do believe that they still are unclear on the effects of second-hand smoke.

I'm NOT saying it was justified that non-smokers had to put up with it for so long. You missed the part where I said I was wanting smokers and non-smokers to come to a solution that satisfies both parties or at least TRY. I'm glad that it's being fixed. I feel uncomfortable that non-smokers are uncomfortable with my actions. I just think legislation shouldn't have shut-out smokers completely on this issue and tried to come to more of a satisfactory solution. And you can't even smoke 100 ft from a building? Like...really? That's ridiculously fucking excessive AND biased. It's almost like non-smokers are TRYING to be assholes about it and are just trying to pour some lemon juice in an already open wound. If you're 100 ft from a building outside...you're outside. Crazy.

In response to this: "If they did, they would restrict their smoking to private places or be a lot more courteous than most of them are." I have never been given this opportunity at a club. At bars in the summer I tend to go outside and smoke being I LOVE BEING DRUNK OUTSIDE. Irrelevant to the convo, I know, but I love being outdoors intoxicated . In the winter? I should have to sit outside humiliated like a dog having to go outside and shit? I have to be uncomfortable? Like I said, I (and many smokers) would love the opportunity to restrict our smoking to private places, sadly, many businesses, such as CC, do not provide us this opportunity.

For instance, a plausible solution would be to have some establishments as designated smoking establishments and some as completely non-smoking. That won't FULLY keep non-smokers out of smoking clubs (not ALL non-smokers are as vehemently against cigarettes as you and do not mind being in the smoke. I know some who actually love the smell.) It also makes the smokers seem as if they got more of a say in the matter. If they choose to go to a non-smoking club, they can't bitch about it being non-smoking as they were already aware.

Right, but you have to keep in mind that it was that way FOREVER. I'm not saying it was right but back 30 years ago I would be willing to bet there were as many, probably more, smokers than there were non-smokers. We haven't even been aware fully until probably the 80's-90's just how bad smoking is. I do believe that they still are unclear on the effects of second-hand smoke.

I'm NOT saying it was justified that non-smokers had to put up with it for so long. You missed the part where I said I was wanting smokers and non-smokers to come to a solution that satisfies both parties or at least TRY. I'm glad that it's being fixed. I feel uncomfortable that non-smokers are uncomfortable with my actions. I just think legislation shouldn't have shut-out smokers completely on this issue and tried to come to more of a satisfactory solution. And you can't even smoke 100 ft from a building? Like...really? That's ridiculously fucking excessive AND biased. It's almost like non-smokers are TRYING to be assholes about it and are just trying to pour some lemon juice in an already open wound. If you're 100 ft from a building outside...you're outside. Crazy.

In response to this: "If they did, they would restrict their smoking to private places or be a lot more courteous than most of them are." I have never been given this opportunity at a club. At bars in the summer I tend to go outside and smoke being I LOVE BEING DRUNK OUTSIDE. Irrelevant to the convo, I know, but I love being outdoors intoxicated . In the winter? I should have to sit outside humiliated like a dog having to go outside and shit? I have to be uncomfortable? Like I said, I (and many smokers) would love the opportunity to restrict our smoking to private places, sadly, many businesses, such as CC, do not provide us this opportunity.

For instance, a plausible solution would be to have some establishments as designated smoking establishments and some as completely non-smoking. That won't FULLY keep non-smokers out of smoking clubs (not ALL non-smokers are as vehemently against cigarettes as you and do not mind being in the smoke. I know some who actually love the smell.) It also makes the smokers seem as if they got more of a say in the matter. If they choose to go to a non-smoking club, they can't bitch about it being non-smoking as they were already aware.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Chernobyl

[torn asunder]

Remember that it doesn't matter which side you are on DO NOT act like a dick because that will start shit.

And yeah I will probably end up blowing smoke in the faces of a few people. However I will use discretion which is something you don't often hear of...

...and you are in a bar so there might be a fight. In bars Karma like to take shape in the form of fists, beer bottles, beer mugs, pool cues, billiard balls, bar stools, beer signs, neon signs, belts, toilet seats (only saw that one time though), full cans of beer, and sometimes steel toe boots.

Sore losers are bad but sore winners are worse...act like a dick to smokers if you want but the ban can only protect you from smoke and not the beatdown that you encourage when you act like a retarded dick.

...DO NOT act like a dick because that will start shit.

[torn asunder]

If one of us is wronged by our government, every American citizen is equally wronged by our government. We need to actually start realizing this again as a collective community.

what if i don't consider it being wronged?

My viewpoint is that I want both non-smokers and smokers to be happy. Non-smokers don't give two fucks about what smokers want. Selfish selfish selfish! Absolutely appalling :. I was willing to work with you, ya know, why won't non-smokers give us the same respect? But no, now hatred is created because non-smokers didn't give a fuck or think about ANYONE but themselves...and now hostile segregation is created. I say hostile because I plan to be hostile about it. So "hostile" may not include all smokers (or casual smokers or people who support smokers) but it covers me (and I don't mean PHYSICAL hostility, I try to avoid getting arrested at all costs).

selfish? really? second hand smoke obviously has an effect on people - ever been at a party where people are smoking weed & gotten a contact buzz? how do you think that happens? yeah. the same shit that the active smoker takes in, is also taken in by people who are just around it.

hearing all of these smokers complain about "not being able to do as they wish" with their bodies is irritating as hell. you know, i really don't care what people do to themselves - they can smoke all they want. thing is, a smoker *can't* restrict their habit to only themselves. it's not like liquor, or orally ingested drugs, where the effects are self-contained. who the hell do smokers think they are? what gives them the right to say, " you don't like smoke, go somewhere else!", but yet, complain about non-smokers saying the same thing? it doesn't make any sense...

and for the record, i've mentioned before that i do think there are better ways to go about this, such as air filtration requirements/inspections for smoking establishments, or the creation of "smoking licenses" for businesses. i do think there need to be better accomodations for smokers, such as separate rooms, or outdoor patios, etc. this business about "25-100 ft from a public building" is fucking stupid...

Edited April 26, 2010 by torn asunder