countdown to no-smoking thread

[Hellion]

OHSHA should have shut down the plant I used to work at for the nasty mist of aluminum oxide/oil coolant mist in the grinding dept in other words a visible fog,Nothing like coughing a lot due to that stuff,even the non smokers were coughing a lot too.but I forgot its ok it won't hurt you unlike cigarette smoke,(sarcasm again)

Edited April 28, 2010 by Hellion

[*Siren*]

i think you're missing the point... i've never had somebody else's big mac, or drink, drift across the room & enter my body. smoking is different than the other negative habits people have, because people *can't* stop it from impacting others. i can choose not to eat a big mac, or have a drink - i *can't* sit in a bar & choose to not have other people's smoke enter my body.

personally, i like going to bars, usually to see live bands. i order a diet coke when i go. i have to put up with second-hand smoke because there are so few places (none that i'm aware of in k'zoo) that are non-smoking and have live bands. personally, i'm thrilled that these places will be smoke free. i do, however, think these establishments should be allowed to provide accomodations for smokers, because it's also unfair to make it so difficult for them to partake of their chosen vice. if that can be done while allowing me my right to choose not to smoke, i think it should be allowed.

Did you completely skip the part where I mentioned smoking outside or in a separate enclosed area so that others are not bothered? If I am in an environment where it does not affect you, I shouldn't be told what I should or shouldn't do with my body.

[KatRN05]

I don't agree with this ban. I think it's gonna be bad for businesses plus I really do not like the government telling us how we should be living our lives. What's next? Completely outlawing smoking? Making us all turn vegan?

Edited April 28, 2010 by KatRN05

[Hellion]

I don't agree with this ban. I think it's gonna be bad for businesses plus I really do not like the government telling us how we should be living our lives. What's next? Completely outlawing smoking? Making us all turn vegan?

+1

They think they own our bodies,wait till the RFID chip implants become mandatory,other than that,I would not be surprised what will be banned next,It seems our government is pulling the copycat bs,looking at other countries governments and laws and such then implanting them here as well.

[KatRN05]

I'd just like to add that I am a non-smoker and think this ban is fucking bullshit.

[Nightgaunt]

it is bad for the environment, it is bad for everything.

That's kind of a stretch, don't you think?

[Tyger]

That's kind of a stretch, don't you think?

It might be a bit of a stretch... but if you think about it. Think of how many cigarette butts get flicked out the window everyday, or how many get just tossed on the ground. At my college alone there is probably millions.

[candyman]

It might be a bit of a stretch... but if you think about it. Think of how many cigarette butts get flicked out the window everyday, or how many get just tossed on the ground. At my college alone there is probably millions.

It is still a stretch and it probably doesn't affect anything at all. Ok so it doesn't look pretty...since most places lack ash trays or have tiny sticks that are somehow supposed to act as cigarette receptacles what do you expect? If people start to say that smoking hurts the environment then it is a stretch...my organic chemistry teacher HATES cigarettes but even she admits that effects on the environment are not an issue and that they only cause the ground to look ugly.

[Msterbeau]

It is still a stretch and it probably doesn't affect anything at all. Ok so it doesn't look pretty...since most places lack ash trays or have tiny sticks that are somehow supposed to act as cigarette receptacles what do you expect? If people start to say that smoking hurts the environment then it is a stretch...my organic chemistry teacher HATES cigarettes but even she admits that effects on the environment are not an issue and that they only cause the ground to look ugly.

People throwing butts out their car windows certainly have a place to put them. And the smoker should be responsible for their own litter. Yes.. litter. It's more than just "It doesn't look pretty". Cigarette butts are everywhere. The foam takes ages to break down. Pretty damn inconsiderate if you ask me. Used to be a $500 fine for littering. I guess no one cares anymore. That's pretty obvious by how much trash there is on the sides of the roads, etc.

[Nightgaunt]

People throwing butts out their car windows certainly have a place to put them. And the smoker should be responsible for their own litter. Yes.. litter. It's more than just "It doesn't look pretty". Cigarette butts are everywhere. The foam takes ages to break down. Pretty damn inconsiderate if you ask me. Used to be a $500 fine for littering. I guess no one cares anymore. That's pretty obvious by how much trash there is on the sides of the roads, etc.

I hate seeing people flick their butts on the ground. How hard is it to knock the cherry off, field strip it, and put it in your pocket for later disposal? I smoked nonfilters and I still didn't just toss 'em over my shoulder.

[Msterbeau]

I hate seeing people flick their butts on the ground. How hard is it to knock the cherry off, field strip it, and put it in your pocket for later disposal? I smoked nonfilters and I still didn't just toss 'em over my shoulder.

[Lillylu29]

I'd just like to add that I am a non-smoker and think this ban is fucking bullshit.

+1

It might be a bit of a stretch... but if you think about it. Think of how many cigarette butts get flicked out the window everyday, or how many get just tossed on the ground. At my college alone there is probably millions.

I can understand about seeing the butts on the ground and ect. but what about the people whom throw fast food wrappers on the ground, or thoes moms whom toss the dirty diaper cause they have no where else to put it and heaven forbid it stay in the car till you find a trash can. How about thoes who spit on the ground? I dont know what kind of funk they have in there mouths that may or may not be contagious. its all gross and we all have a matter of opinions, but IMO this is just more then a ban on smoking its a ban on our freedom. Whats next.... seriously..... maybe they should ban black shirts on wednesdays.(insert sarcastic-ness ) they have far more serious things to worry about then who can smoke and where....

[torn asunder]

I agree with you on most of all of your points except for the exposure part. If it were really that bad PPM and PEL levels would signal at least a small risk for a short time exposure. We would also be seeing more problems than we really are.

i do see what you're saying.

but almost every time i go to my local sports pub for lunch/dinner, someone ends up sitting next to me who smokes. while i'm sure the overall smoke level in the pub is minimal, the side-draft caused by the fans in this place inevitably pull the smoke right across me and i end up breathing it, just like the end of the cig was directly in front of me.

i guess my biggest personal concern, more than an overall level measurement, would be ensuring a consistent updraft which would prevent/greatly minimize things like i described above. although if you've ever seen a show in a really small bar, you'll know that overall room levels can get *pretty* bad!

[torn asunder]

Did you completely skip the part where I mentioned smoking outside or in a separate enclosed area so that others are not bothered? If I am in an environment where it does not affect you, I shouldn't be told what I should or shouldn't do with my body.

well, actually, while i didn't intentionally skip it, i *did* miss it somehow!? very valid point, and i agree.

[prick]

It is not true. You can smoke just outside the doors.

I think your going on Canada laws. A coffee house I frequent had smoking but one of the workers said that it will be illegal to have "patio smoking" anywhere here in Michigan.

[prick]

But on a plus side this is one more thing that will help me quit.

[Hellion]

Well we still don't know how CC will address this because it would be a bad idea to try charging 4 dollars to go out side to smoke,and also I have heard a rumor that you cannot smoke on your porch sidewalk and such,don't know if that's true,I have yet to see 100% proof.

[TheGimp]

Well we still don't know how CC will address this because it would be a bad idea to try charging 4 dollars to go out side to smoke,and also I have heard a rumor that you cannot smoke on your porch sidewalk and such,don't know if that's true,I have yet to see 100% proof.

CC is either going to work something out with customers being able to go in and out to have a cigarette by doing wrist bans like Necto dose in stead of just writing on the hand to make it easyer and so we can still keep business, or CC is going to make a cigar bar type deal....but if worse comes to worse and they dont do anything to help out the smokers...the electronic cigarette is still legal to smoke in the building so smokers can always just switch to that

[the_fairy_gothmother]

I guess it dont really matter to me. Im dying anyways. If second hand smoking dont kill me some other cancerous things will. I dont like smoking but if someone is considerate and dont sit there with it in my face I dont really care. I just hate seeing people that bitch they got no money to pay their bills while they spent their money on cigarettes. Even rolling your own becomes costly because well this wont be the case with everyone but my parents roll their own with a machine and it seems like they just smoke more cause they think they are saving so much money. Then the garbage and litter. Seeing the ashes,tar stains and the smell sort of puts me off. But Yeah if theres going be a ban than some sort of compromise should be considered. I mean like right now with the whole dont buy bottled water thing. Its harmful to the environment and no more better than drinking tap water. Ok fair point yes drinking bottled water does later lead to unneeded trash. Now I hear there are states banning them in places and stores that are either charging for or completely rid of plastic bags. So many these things are useful everyday objects. In the grand scheme of things they are a waste of our planets resources and limited space for trash. Now imagine getting ticketed or fined for jogging down the street and drinking from a bottle of water. Its sometimes nice to have them for convenience if your really in a rush or hurry. Right now not everyone can afford reusable $10 bottles and buy a dozen plus reusable shopping bags. Those shopping bags while yes help with environment were pretty annoying when I worked in retail like meijers. Its one thing having to scan everyones groceries but bagging them too since they like many places have rid of baggers having that spinning bag thing is the fastest solution. when someone comes through with 50 of those reusable bags its time consuming unfolding and having to stick their stuff in it. while this shouldnt be annoying because they are trying to keep trash and waste out of dumps I get annoyed by the impatient customers behind them and the stupid speed scores which we are expected to live up to.

Thing is what may be convenient or good for one person or situation is not for another. Like I said though if smoking (well second hand for me since I dont) but if that dont kill me something else will so I dont really care. I only care about things that effect peoples way to express themselves and take away our freedoms that dont harm others. Banning bottled water in places or areas seems to be a bit more ridiculous than smoking. Only way Im doing anyone harm at that moment is if I should decide to spit in the bottle, urinate in it and try giving them a infection, illness or disease or using it as a weapon of some sort.

Oh well theres always going to be something thats bad for us. Smokers smoke to your hearts content if that seems worth the money and pleases you. Me I rather spend my money on other things more useful or save up for either a rainy day or a fun trip.

[freydis]

Plus, its still my choice to smoke or to quit smoking and people need to stop with the preaching.

This i do indeed understand.

You just got really intensely hostile in that earlier post, it was like JEEBUS, WTF?

heheheheh

[candyman]

i do see what you're saying.

but almost every time i go to my local sports pub for lunch/dinner, someone ends up sitting next to me who smokes. while i'm sure the overall smoke level in the pub is minimal, the side-draft caused by the fans in this place inevitably pull the smoke right across me and i end up breathing it, just like the end of the cig was directly in front of me.

i guess my biggest personal concern, more than an overall level measurement, would be ensuring a consistent updraft which would prevent/greatly minimize things like i described above. although if you've ever seen a show in a really small bar, you'll know that overall room levels can get *pretty* bad!

Hey I understand what you are saying. The only time I smoke when I eat is at the truck stops with the rest of the riders...that is just the way of life in the truck stops and that reminds me...truck stops are one more place where this ban is going to piss off more people and I HIGHLY doubt anyone new is going to attend after the ban. Other than than...no cigarette while eating please.

Traditional fans suck...the principals of airflow that they use are very basic and consist of nothing more than moving the air somewhere other than where it was before. All the bars in my town have the smoke eater fan system which you get by calculating roof size to get the proper CFM numbers...and it also comes with a strong ventilation unit that will work with the fans if you do not wish to modify the existing air units. Simple, cheap, and VERY effective. I would have to say that even when all the fans are not running it is sometimes very difficult to tell that there is smoking going on in the bar...the effect is made even better if a door or window is open.

Level in small and even large clubs can get pretty bad. Basement shows are the worst but even in the Rave in Milwaukee, which I still think has one of the largest stage areas around today, things can get fairly stuff. Although, unless the crowd is small and they are not exerting themselves to the music it is hard to tell if it is the cigarette smoke or the sweat, body odor, flying hair, flying beer, nasty steam from who know where, the smell from whatever the goop is covering the floor...it makes me stand by my statement of "who care about the smoking its is far from a health club". However, after burning myself in the hand at least twice at every show I hold off with the smoking until I am off in a crowdless corner...I cup my cigarettes in my hand as to avoid burning other people which gets me burned because it is my cigarette.

[candyman]

This i do indeed understand.

You just got really intensely hostile in that earlier post, it was like JEEBUS, WTF?

heheheheh

Its all a matter of how I grew up and where I grew up. As I have stated before the smoking ban has no place in my town. My town was in the World book of record for most bars and churches per capita and we are still close to that old number. With so many bars our bars are families...the same people at the same bar or something the same people go to a couple bars. We do shit with each other outside the bars too...I do a bunch of work for the bikers on their bikes and for the farm hands on their trucks. If a new person comes into the bar, which doesn't happen often, they can tell that they are new because everyone stops talking. If you want a drink its a beer or a whiskey and that is it.

Now, when I left my town to go to college everything changed. People accused me of taking advantage of them when I fixed their cars and asked for only $8 and hour for labor. People started telling me what I HAD to do and not what I should do. I really had no political affiliation yet these liberal teachers found out I wan't completely on their side and SLAYED me! I felt horrible because my status as a white male that smoked and shot guns at deer to get food made me EVIL! Yeah it was Madison, WI which is a town that claims to be "progressive" but it actually has its head too far up its ass to know any better.

I still stand by all my issues...but when I lash out just look at me as a cat that has been abused before, like my cat Tiggs. I see a hand coming at me and flash back to the old times and freak out. Its not that I want smoking everywhere or for everyone to love it. I even tell people NOT to start smoking. I am just sick of all the demonizing that is going on in this world because, like with the smoking issue, we have been put aside like a freakshow act and it seems that as long as you are a smoker its open season on you and anything is considered fair play. I just want to smoke in my home bar...it is OUR bar and this ban WILL do nothing but hurt us.

Anyways...off for a cigarette...which will piss off my neighbors if they are awake because I am not even going to put pants on.

[Rev.Reverence]

i don't think anyone can argue that the way they went about this ban/what it entails is kinda shitty, but imo, it's a step in the right direction. now that we've taken that step, we need to modify it, to make things more reasonable.

i've mentioned it before; what really should happen is 1) businesses should be able to buy a "smoking" license, just as they do a liquor license. the extra revenue brought in could be used for inspectors to do the following... 2) there should be regulations on the air quality of establishments purchasing said license. air filtration systems (e.g. requiring updraft filtration to prevent side-drifting of smoke), random air sample testing, fines for exceeding established limits, and revocation of said license after X number of violations. 3) workers who are employed by smoking establishments should be required to sign a waiver (or some other form of acknowledgment) that they understand they will be working in a smoking environment and are ok with it.

the current ban is a step in the right direction, (imo, as i said), but now we need to refine it for practicality and equality.

You want to know something...

..it WAS mentioned, & totally overlooked, & it's some REAL LIFE BigBrother shit...you can go smoke in the casinos...because they put the cash into pushing this through.

You MAY NOT open a NEW cigar bar *EVER*...the existing ones, are grandfathered in (if they close, they close){if we are LUCKY, you can sell the papers on it}...& douchemagnets, as our Club populous would say...so, in order to smoke, I have to risk all that that entails...

i think you're missing the point... i've never had somebody else's big mac, or drink, drift across the room & enter my body. smoking is different than the other negative habits people have, because people *can't* stop it from impacting others. i can choose not to eat a big mac, or have a drink - i *can't* sit in a bar & choose to not have other people's smoke enter my body.

personally, i like going to bars, usually to see live bands. i order a diet coke when i go. i have to put up with second-hand smoke because there are so few places (none that i'm aware of in k'zoo) that are non-smoking and have live bands. personally, i'm thrilled that these places will be smoke free. i do, however, think these establishments should be allowed to provide accomodations for smokers, because it's also unfair to make it so difficult for them to partake of their chosen vice. if that can be done while allowing me my right to choose not to smoke, i think it should be allowed.

OH...but, now...that guy that eats a bigmac a day, & never moves his ass further than the car, or work...HE IS gonna' effect you...HEALTHCARE BILL thingy...

Now, when he needs a by-pass, YOU & I get to pay for it if he can't..ever see the statistics for obesity in poor areas???

[Rev.Reverence]

You want to know something...

..it WAS mentioned, & totally overlooked, & it's some REAL LIFE BigBrother shit...you can go smoke in the casinos...because they put the cash into pushing this through.

You MAY NOT open a NEW cigar bar *EVER*...the existing ones, are grandfathered in (if they close, they close){if we are LUCKY, you can sell the papers on it}...& douchemagnets, as our Club populous would say...so, in order to smoke, I have to risk all that that entails...

OH...but, now...that guy that eats a bigmac a day, & never moves his ass further than the car, or work...HE IS gonna' effect you...HEALTHCARE BILL thingy...

Now, when he needs a by-pass, YOU & I get to pay for it if he can't..ever see the statistics for obesity in poor areas???

http://www.michiganpolicy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=693:michigan-smoking-ban-exemptions-and-enforcement&catid=43:health-care-policy-briefs&Itemid=159

OOOH SNAP!

Retail tobacco stores and cigar bars will now have a lot of extra paperwork to go through in order to maintain their current smoking policies. Both the retail tobacco stores and the cigar bars must complete paperwork every year and are subject to provide further documentation to ensure that the establishment meets the requirements laid out in the bill. This extra paper work requires a lot of time on the store owners part, especially considering that none of this was necessary when the store first opened.

Casinos do not suffer a lot of implementation issues. Restaurants and non-gaming areas must become non-smoking but this does not require a lot of work on the part of the casino. If someone is smoking outside the gaming area all they would have to do is step back in the gaming area and since the casino already employs security guards, these employees could easily ask customers to smoke only in the gaming area. Casinos established after May 1, 2010 will be unable to allow smoking anywhere. They will not have to change the rules of their casino, nor add anything minus a few no smoking signs.

[Rev.Reverence]

http://www.tctimes.com/articles/2010/04/28/news/doc4bd75045b0e70469084988.txt

Sais that there is no limit on feet away from a building...but many peoples, I TRUST, & KNOW...state that it is 100 feet...I am currently looking for the info, because, I kinda' need to know...