Dinosaurs On Noahs Arc...

[Steven]

Your right, I really haven't done my homework. I can't remember any of it from when I did attend church for that brief period of time with my aunt/uncle. Not that I really care to do said "homework" since they've already done it for me (I'm also using the same technique to administrate my webserver, it's all referenced).

But maybe I should read it considering it sounds like a good story. I mean a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Then again I just came up with the ultimate cop out to explaining myself. To which if our lord and savior doesn't feel the need to explain himself then why should I? Since I'm his creation and therefore an extension of his will.

Oh yeah I'm going to hell for the previous sentence.

the question? the one I asked you? are we going to go there?

[Scary Guy]

the question? the one I asked you? are we going to go there?

Oh yeah the good part. Guess you missed where I said I can't remember hardly any of it anymore.

The Bible (and religion in general) is good for people who need it to get by is pretty much what I was getting at. I'm sure if I actually read it I'd find parts and concepts I agree with. I'll go with "do unto others" and "give me the wisdom" to appease you though for now (the two sloganized versus I can remember".

[hellequin]

I still don't get what makes people think that the old testament was written by the big G himself.

neither do i. misconception?

like i said, leave it to humans to muck up the gist of what God's trying to tell us. Any paster, religion teacher and christian in the "what's obvious" know, realize the bible was NOT written by God. They usually say something along the lines of "the bible is infallible because it was inspired by God and written by his servants." yada yada yada

God did not physically write the bible...

Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

The church that I've started going to says this:

We accept the Bible as God’s infallible Word and it is the final authority for all

Personally, I think it was written by some talented people, who were inspired by God AND everything is up for debate. There's plenty of stuff in the bible i dont agree with. I try to take a big picture approach to it and not get lost in the trivial details. Life's too short.

[Steven]

Oh yeah the good part. Guess you missed where I said I can't remember hardly any of it anymore.

The Bible (and religion in general) is good for people who need it to get by is pretty much what I was getting at. I'm sure if I actually read it I'd find parts and concepts I agree with. I'll go with "do unto others" and "give me the wisdom" to appease you though for now (the two sloganized versus I can remember".

well this confuses me then.

because you posted with a seemingly passionate declaration akin to headspinning, then lightened up a bit by saying there were some good things there.

to either get behind or absolutely deny somethign as devisive as scriptural text....I'd like to think some personal time was being invested. You see I can refute by way of online links also, or quote from credible authoritative sources to back up my points. But I tend to shy away from doing that when I'm talking about issues or ideals that carry a personal investment on my part. I am not a Christian because I'm a puppet - Im a christian because I've done alot of personal ditch digging and still continue to do so. My convictions therefore, are mine. I beleive the Bible is God-inspired for the same reasons, not because I'm told to beleive it.

[Steven]

neither do i. misconception?

like i said, leave it to humans to muck up the gist of what God's trying to tell us. Any paster, religion teacher and christian in the "what's obvious" know, realize the bible was NOT written by God. They usually say something along the lines of "the bible is infallible because it was inspired by God and written by his servants." yada yada yada

God did not physically write the bible...

Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

The church that I've started going to says this:

We accept the Bible as God’s infallible Word and it is the final authority for all

Personally, I think it was written by some talented people, who were inspired by God AND everything is up for debate. There's plenty of stuff in the bible i dont agree with. I try to take a big picture approach to it and not get lost in the trivial details. Life's too short.

good post

[BrassFusion]

neither do i. misconception?

like i said, leave it to humans to muck up the gist of what God's trying to tell us. Any paster, religion teacher and christian in the "what's obvious" know, realize the bible was NOT written by God. They usually say something along the lines of "the bible is infallible because it was inspired by God and written by his servants." yada yada yada

God did not physically write the bible...

Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

The church that I've started going to says this:

We accept the Bible as God's infallible Word and it is the final authority for all

Personally, I think it was written by some talented people, who were inspired by God AND everything is up for debate. There's plenty of stuff in the bible i dont agree with. I try to take a big picture approach to it and not get lost in the trivial details. Life's too short.

what's the difference between "inspired by god" and "pulled out of one's divine ass?"

[hellequin]

what's the difference between "inspired by god" and "pulled out of one's divine ass?"

civility vs. sarcasm

[BrassFusion]

civility vs. sarcasm

the two aren't mutually exclusive. that is an absolutely legitimate question.

[Scary Guy]

I am not a Christian because I'm a puppet - Im a christian because I've done alot of personal ditch digging and still continue to do so.

Your a christian for pretty much all the same reasons I'm not a christian. Don't give me a book, give me hard cold irrefutable facts.

But again I'm agnostic because absence of proof is not proof of absence, so you might very well be right after all, but I doubt it. Still I hope your right because that means I won't blink out of existence totally when I do die.

what's the difference between "inspired by god" and "pulled out of one's divine ass?"

To me, nothing. It's insanity vs. story telling as in are you making it up or is/are the voice(s) in your head telling you what to write (are you making it up). The chances that god actually talked to someone and had them write it down are slim to none.

[hellequin]

the two aren't mutually exclusive. that is an absolutely legitimate question.

the tone of your question was sarcasm, legitimate or not, i was offended by the tone and was not sure if you were sincerely asking, "how can i tell if it was all made up?" I've found when i use sarcasm in writing, most of the time, it is misunderstood.

if in fact you were asking, "how can i tell if it was all made up?" Listen to your gut instinct. What's the purpose of the story being told? Are there any underlining meanings? How can i use this example in my life? What's my life experiences taught me and do they match up with the lesson of the story? What does mom say about it? Or my best friend, brother, cousin, dad, clergyman, shaman, the guy on the street corner? Go back to your own gut instinct. Sit on it for a few days. Pull it back out. Has anything hatched? eh. maybe put it in the freezer then. you never know. what dont make sense now, might make sense in a few months.

I don't believe god actually verbally spoke with the writers. This is an instance of getting lost in the details and i just dont care if God spoke in their ears or how exactly god inspired them to write. does it really matter?

I spent 13 years in parochial schools and had religion shoved and spoon fed down my throat. It didn't sit well with me and i've been regurgitating it all back up by purposefully sticking my finger down my red, raw religion-ized throat. I'm now ready to hear about what God was trying to teach me versus what organized religion was trying to brain wash me with. There is a difference and it is in the Bible. You'll just have to decide for yourself. If you want help or questions on specific passages, stories, and meanings., PM me and i'll be glad to share what i think. if i cant explain it well, i might be able to direct you to others who could.

[BrassFusion]

I don't believe god actually verbally spoke with the writers. This is an instance of getting lost in the details and i just dont care if God spoke in their ears or how exactly god inspired them to write. does it really matter?

YES!

muhammed was a prophet too, ok?

[Scary Guy]

YES!

What she said. Who's to say they weren't schizophrenic? Just because the book is ancient doesn't make it accurate.

[Homicidalheathen]

Most people who have 'visions' are actually having a psychotic break down lol. Yup. Lets follow them!

[phee]

Most people who have 'visions' are actually having a psychotic break down lol. Yup. Lets follow them!

Psychotic break + Charisma = New religion/religious sect

[Head Wreck]

now if only i had the charisma my minion base would expand

[Steven]

YES!

muhammed was a prophet too, ok?

which prophesies of Mohammed came true? (legit question - I dont know)

and - how many prophesies fortelling Mohammed were written by the scribes prior to his appearance that were likewise carried to fruition? (another legit quetion as again - I do not know).

[BrassFusion]

which prophesies of Mohammed came true? (legit question - I dont know)

and - how many prophesies fortelling Mohammed were written by the scribes prior to his appearance that were likewise carried to fruition? (another legit quetion as again - I do not know).

i thought we were talking genesis, mostly. as in, before the J-man showed up, and whether the writers of the old testament were actually divinely inspired or just full of it. my argument is that there's no way to prove that some jerkface has a direct line to god, and that mohammed has just as much a claim to divinity as anyone who was involved in writing the bible. or the bhagavad gita. or the big book of buddha. or whatever.

[Steven]

the tone of your question was sarcasm, legitimate or not, i was offended by the tone and was not sure if you were sincerely asking, "how can i tell if it was all made up?" I've found when i use sarcasm in writing, most of the time, it is misunderstood.

if in fact you were asking, "how can i tell if it was all made up?" Listen to your gut instinct. What's the purpose of the story being told? Are there any underlining meanings? How can i use this example in my life? What's my life experiences taught me and do they match up with the lesson of the story? What does mom say about it? Or my best friend, brother, cousin, dad, clergyman, shaman, the guy on the street corner? Go back to your own gut instinct. Sit on it for a few days. Pull it back out. Has anything hatched? eh. maybe put it in the freezer then. you never know. what dont make sense now, might make sense in a few months.

I don't believe god actually verbally spoke with the writers. This is an instance of getting lost in the details and i just dont care if God spoke in their ears or how exactly god inspired them to write. does it really matter?

I spent 13 years in parochial schools and had religion shoved and spoon fed down my throat. It didn't sit well with me and i've been regurgitating it all back up by purposefully sticking my finger down my red, raw religion-ized throat. I'm now ready to hear about what God was trying to teach me versus what organized religion was trying to brain wash me with. There is a difference and it is in the Bible. You'll just have to decide for yourself. If you want help or questions on specific passages, stories, and meanings., PM me and i'll be glad to share what i think. if i cant explain it well, i might be able to direct you to others who could.

very good post.

I would add that in general, most writing that stands the test of time has some sort of muse right?

In this case, we Christians simply think the Muse was divine. Men wrote down, what they felt led to write down, this is not a new human behavior.

As for it being divinely inspired, this is something that cannot be proven anymore than a song or a poem can be proven. it simply is what it is, a collection of texts cannonized, that is by record the most persecuted and yet all time best selling book in the history of mankind.

By the way I keep forgetting to ask the naysayers exactly WHAT the biblical text consists of, both old and new testament.

Naysayers: (insert answer here).

[Steven]

i thought we were talking genesis, mostly. as in, before the J-man showed up, and whether the writers of the old testament were actually divinely inspired or just full of it. my argument is that there's no way to prove that some jerkface has a direct line to god, and that mohammed has just as much a claim to divinity as anyone who was involved in writing the bible. or the bhagavad gita. or the big book of buddha. or whatever.

You asked a question Babe, about Mohammed being a Prophet.

I'd like to know too - and what that consists of.

[BrassFusion]

By the way I keep forgetting to ask the naysayers exactly WHAT the biblical text consists of, both old and new testament.

Naysayers: (insert answer here).

antiquated bullshit by multiple unqualified authors pieced together at random, with any sections that disagreed with king james' view of the WAY THINGS SHOULD BE relegated to apocryphal status

[torn asunder]

very good post.

I would add that in general, most writing that stands the test of time has some sort of muse right?

In this case, we Christians simply think the Muse was divine. Men wrote down, what they felt led to write down, this is not a new human behavior.

because it's not new doesn't necessarily make it divine...

As for it being divinely inspired, this is something that cannot be proven anymore than a song or a poem can be proven. it simply is what it is, a collection of texts cannonized, that is by record the most persecuted and yet all time best selling book in the history of mankind.

and being controversial doesn't make it so, either...

By the way I keep forgetting to ask the naysayers exactly WHAT the biblical text consists of, both old and new testament.

Naysayers: (insert answer here).

and i think requiring "naysayers" to prove their biblical expertise in order to debate the validity of a religious "artifact" is a bit tedious. when discussing something of this nature, knowledge of specifics, complete with quoted sources, isn't necessary to argue towards the validity/invalidity of the subject being discussed.

i know i've said this before, and it may not fit perfectly in this post, but i feel it needs to be said again...

one can't reference a source as proof of the validity of the source. i.e. "the bible is god's word! we know this because it says so in the bible!"

can anyone discuss the validity of god's word without quoting god's word? if so, i'd love to continue this debate - until then, it's all just a bunch of psychotic ramblings and/or historical references of a group of people who were in the midst of a cultural revolution, and who all congregated towards an ideal, and whose writings were subsequently assembled and used by govt. powers to kow the masses into doing their bidding.

that being said, i'm still a firm believer in the thought that, go with whatever works for you!"

(p.s. this wasn't specifically pointed at you steven, your post just served as a practical jumping-off point for me! sorry if it came across as offensive or rude)

[Scary Guy]

By the way I keep forgetting to ask the naysayers exactly WHAT the biblical text consists of, both old and new testament.

Naysayers: (insert answer here).

According to my jewish friends the old testament.

one can't reference a source as proof of the validity of the source. i.e. "the bible is god's word! we know this because it says so in the bible!"

I like that, I'm going to use that.

(p.s. this wasn't specifically pointed at you steven, your post just served as a practical jumping-off point for me! sorry if it came across as offensive or rude)

No it came off quite logical, at least to me.

[Steven]

According to my jewish friends the old testament.

same question then (because the old and new testaments parallel each other: What is it? (remember I'm speaking to a head spinner)

[Steven]

because it's not new doesn't necessarily make it divine...

and being controversial doesn't make it so, either...

and i think requiring "naysayers" to prove their biblical expertise in order to debate the validity of a religious "artifact" is a bit tedious. when discussing something of this nature, knowledge of specifics, complete with quoted sources, isn't necessary to argue towards the validity/invalidity of the subject being discussed.

i know i've said this before, and it may not fit perfectly in this post, but i feel it needs to be said again...

one can't reference a source as proof of the validity of the source. i.e. "the bible is god's word! we know this because it says so in the bible!"

can anyone discuss the validity of god's word without quoting god's word? if so, i'd love to continue this debate - until then, it's all just a bunch of psychotic ramblings and/or historical references of a group of people who were in the midst of a cultural revolution, and who all congregated towards an ideal, and whose writings were subsequently assembled and used by govt. powers to kow the masses into doing their bidding.

that being said, i'm still a firm believer in the thought that, go with whatever works for you!"

(p.s. this wasn't specifically pointed at you steven, your post just served as a practical jumping-off point for me! sorry if it came across as offensive or rude)

Here's tje thing Mike....we go tp college and peruse old writings and pick them apart. we attempt to discern the role of the writer at that point in time, we take into account teh culture and power at the time, we look for specific motivational devices, we try to get a feel for why the peice was written and to whom its actually addressed.

thats why I ask these types of questions. Because its common to get a passionate rebuke of scripture, but when I ask for someone to tell me a littel bit about scripture, I often get a bit of sidestepping. Many people simply see it as an archaic book of does and donts - and thats all they see - when they do that they miss a great deal of whats rteally in there - regardless of the choice they make.

PS - I rarely if ever quote scriptrue when discussing scripture.

[Steven]

antiquated bullshit by multiple unqualified authors pieced together at random, with any sections that disagreed with king james' view of the WAY THINGS SHOULD BE relegated to apocryphal status

this is rote.

Im asking for detail.

and I take it your leaning back on Nicean legend? there is more to that story.....