What Exactly Makes One A Vain Stuck Up Bitch?

[livininxtcgoth]

so i've always considered myself totally not an elitist-- i've been under the impression for the whole 19 years i've been alive that i dont really consider myself better than other people (for the most part, within reason) and that i dont act like i'm better than others. i've been able to recognize my superior characteristics (i may be more talented in some aspects, more phsycially attractive in some ways, or just more friendly or nicer) in a reasonably humble manor without developing a huge unattractive ego.

or so i thought.

but there's this girl in my business 1010 class that's made me think otherwise.

she's basically a "hot topic goth". the type with a strict uniform of black tshirts with sarcastic sayings on them and cheap overpiced tripp guy's bondage pants. i was like this at one point when i was like 14. but at least i was still interested in better music than i looked like i was and at around 16 i developed something called good taste and fashion sense. now i had hope for her sensibility when i saw she was wearing biohazard goggles, but lost this immediately upon learning she bought them as well at hot topic. aside from that she's also not physically the type of person i normally try to associate myself with and/or find myself in the company of. to put it plainly, she's not winning any beauty pageants in the near future, and she's about one extra cookie away from fitting rather snugly into the desks in class.

this girl is really nice. she comes up to me every day and gushes about some aspect of my ensemble, continually tries to engage me in conversation, she participates in class almost as much as i do (yes, i participate in classes-- i derive great pleasure from quickly astounding teachers/professors with the fact that the pierced freak in dreadlocks and vynyl is by far better of a student than every miss america in the room). so she's polite, friendly, and intelligent, and from her persistant attempts to be more sociable than i'm being its very obvious that she desires my friendship.

and so i try to carry on polite conversation with her, i try to return her compliments, and i try to push away this voice in the back of my head saying "ew, she is so not cool enough to be friends with you" but i just cant. she's obviously a good person so i try to get over myself and allow a friendship develop, but at the end of class every day, she leaves with me from the room saying "see you later, enjoy your next class" and i scuttle in the other direction muttering "yeah thanx u too"

so here's where you all come in...

am i a bitch and i should just get over this or is there any justification at all in my vanity?

please be really honest with me, i can take it

[The Kanuck]

Overall, I can not say yes you are because there are always people out there that we all, and I mean all look down onto. May it be for there point of views, way they dress or anything that bugs us. It is how you act about it. If you tell her that she is a stupid bitch and that she does not deserve to be near you, then yes you are a bitch. Keep acting the way you are and she just might rub off on yea. Overall, keep it up like you are and yes you are a not a bitch. (not a bitch ) But scream at her, tell her she is worthless and such and yes you are a complete bitch... but HEY! I will still love you

<3 Jake (The Canadian.... still....)

[Msterbeau]

There's people I've met and worked with that just don't rub me the right way.. I can't explain why. They just do. Sometimes I'm able to identify what the issue is and sometimes i can't. Bottom line... It sounds like you have some deep soul searching ahead. It does indeed sound like your judging her. I'm not saying you have to go and be her best friend either... but I think it's worth the effort to figure out and confront whatever it is inside you that's causing these thoughts.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Wow. Well first off hi i'm troy. =) For some reason even though i see 100+ posts next to your name i'm not recognizing it right off. Could just be my piss poor memory.

But anyhow i admire your honesty in writing that. The title threw me off a bit, i was expecting a passive-aggressive rant, turned out to be quite the opposite. Very refreshing sort of self-examination. Real self examination not the retorical "tell me what i want to hear" type. Great stuff.

At some point in the past i noticed similar traits i myself. I'd long held myself to be fairly "humble" and tried very hard not to let myself start thinking i'm better than anyone else "in basic human value" lets say.

I too used to love being one of the key participants in academic discussions in school and seemingly shocking people in doing so. Who the hell is this guy with the all-black and the makup spouting off all these reasoned thoughts? Damn, he might actually have something other to say than just "i'm go slit my wrists and/or fix my lipstick".

Hell i used to be biased against people that were even remotely positive. Years later, i've realized at least within my sphere of influence it takes a hell of a lot more integrity to let people be happy than it does to mentally tear them down and rationalize away their illusionary happiness. I think we all had our trunk full of poetry, drugs and suicide implements in the back of the black on black car.

Yet, i've often found myself judging people on the basis of things that i, intellectually/ethically think is totally wrong. Appearance being a big one. I do tend to judge people at least somewhat based on appearance or what things they have and/or like. I've been trying to , over the years breed that out of myself. It hasn't worked too well. I think our culture is so hypocritically programmed that its very difficult to escape. When we are kids people say things like "act right" or "don't judge" but without really explaining , to any good degree what that means, and how we are going to escape it since its so widespread. Our friends, our entertianment our social arenas all have a sort of caste system based on unfair assumptions.

How do i stop myself from assuming that ICP Hot Topic "juggalos" are dumbass kiddies? Its hard i tell yah, with so many examples! (I'll admit i have bought things from hot topic... but only stuff that i can claim plausible deniablity. haha)

How do i stop myself from assuming that the really hardcore ubergothdressup types are standoffish stuck on themselves bastards? Its hard i tell ya, with so many examples! ( was one of them for years... was insta-friends with the other ubergoths... soon as i stopped being dressed up all the time that ended abrubtly was a RUDE awakening)

I remember when i used to wear the makeup and the full gothy dress near 24/7 and was at school or out at random places and people would give me all sorts of looks... (totally in denial if i try and say i didn't do it partly for the attention) I was like WHAT THE HELL why does it matter so much how i look? Why does it automatically make me >whatever

Then... i go and do the exact same thing. I do it when i see the cheerleader types, i do it when i see the hot topic kids, i do it when i see the business guy types, ad infinitum. Even when they are being very nice to me i often have a internal mechanism that is telling me they are uncool , or stupid or think they are better than me or >insert irrational response here<. what the hell is wrong with us>

Part of the reason we started DGN was to get away from some of the (then existing now, all virtually defunct) online communities that were so arrogant/antagonistic "caste system" based.

My grandfater was cool , don't think he ever wore lipstick, at least not a cool brand. I miss him. =(

Im starting to think we just need to give up on the idyllic concept that looks and such are not relevant, and assume that they ARE relevant. I mean theres only so much time we have on this planet if we don't make some (often wrong, but maybe more often correct) assumptions about people , we cant function efficiently. We will spend a lot of time "barking up the wrong tree". But god damn that doesn't seem right does it? Just on a gut level? How unfair/unromantic?

Ok so i'd say that the mere fact that you >recognize:secret:

This ends the 12 volume desk reference set. Damn sorry that was long... as if i know how to write a short post!

[BrassFusion]

now i had hope for her sensibility when i saw she was wearing biohazard goggles, but lost this immediately upon learning she bought them as well at hot topic.

You seem like a decent enough person, so I don't dislike you. And I won't automatically assume you're a vain, stuck-up bitch.

But that comment by itself is EXTREMELY stuck-up. I don't understand why biohazard goggles would qualify someone as "sensible," and I further don't understand why having bought them at Hot Topic would nullify that sensibility. What's so great about biohazard goggles, other than the fact that YOU think they're fashionable? And what's so bad about Hot Topic? I constantly hear people bitch about it and the "posers" that shop there, but... why? Is it so chilling to think that one's style may be getting more mainstream? And if that's the case, how shallow is that? I don't remember reading in the Gothique Bible that Gothique Attire must be bought secondhand.

And hon, I know this is abrasive, but... you asked. And I guess this is more directed at everyone who's anti-Hot Topic and the people who shop there. Goth should be about honesty, personality, and open-mindedness, not how cheap or expensive or original or mass-produced one's clothes are.

[Scary Guy]

Hi, I'm a stuck up elitest snob. Everyone makes fun of me for how I dress, but I think they're all just idiots. I had two people complement me on my trademark hat tonight at Luna. So what if I only have one outfit? It's who I am and everyone recognizes me and either says hi or avoids me completely. You can spot me and usually notice who I am right away. But enough about me (heh).

As I see it cookie-cutter (haha, cutter) goths suck, but only half way. They're either trying to fit in with their friends who turned to the dark side or they saw the style, liked it, and decided to emulate it. They are usually misinformed wanabe "posers" which don't know where they want to take the style.

I used to think our culture was open and accepting, and for the most part it is. Unless you're an elitest, in which case if you don't agree with something it should be exiled or destroyed (preferably destroyed so there is no chance you have to deal with it ever again).

I used to think exactly like that too, and then I met cool people outside the culture who weren't completely retarded. This is how I came to my current way of thinking that only stupid people need to die. Smart non gothic people (and lesser goths) still get to exist, but only as servents to the dark overlords, THE ÜBERGOTHS!

True goths don't considder Marylin Manson goth because he basically gave it a bad name and mangled what it's all about. To an extent Nine Inch Nails too, but at least Trent had tallent. Manson has a good message but he went about presenting it all wrong. Technically both are goth but no true goth will ever admit it (those that do are "Mansonites".

Your "friend" is headed in the right direction, but needs guidence. Take her to Noir Leather and some of the other alternative non HT stores around town. Introduce her to bands other than Manson, Nails, and HIM (or whatever is on HT's shelves these days).

Remember, we were all newbie posers at one point in our lives. Well except me, I've always been the elitest prick I am now. I'm grampa goth and was goth since birth (I didn't cry when the doc spanked me on the ass, I hissed at the fucker). Actually no I did cry automatically since life is pain and so began my everlasting depression (now that's goth lol).

</end my complete and utter bullshit, or was it?>

[BrassFusion]

See? Do you REALLY want to be like HIM?

[Scary Guy]

See? Do you REALLY want to be like HIM?

Do you mean him as in me or him as in HIM?

http://www.heartagram.com/

[kellygrrrrrl]

Stop looking at her appearance......

Who cares what anyone wears.

She could be a very nice confidant, or a friend.

Close your eyes.

You will see much better....trust me.

[Homicidalheathen]

Yes, and no. It sounds like your talking about one of my kids. So I want to slap you. (just kidding!) I hate that they spend all this money at hot topic and won't go to the salvation army and buck society fashion standards like I did. And I too, am a stuck up bitch in my attitudes about old school punk vs new school emo or goth.

However.....you might be right about her music tastes. Do you talk to her about music?

My kids are both musicians somewhat and have been introduced to the best classical....rock.....jazz......blues......go to the best concerts and a few bad ones and can tell the difference. I don't know that it is fair to judge someone on their music tastes if they are truely just ignorant. Maybe she has no musical training or good influence.

Its hard for me sometimes to be friends with younger people because I too, assume they are shallow uninformed greedy little wannabes. But you can't judge a book by its cover. You might end up with a good friend. There are people my age who know nothing about good music and to me have lousey taste in everything so I think it is agism your speaking of. Keep an open mind and heart!

[TygerLili]

Maybe this girl bothers you because she reminds you of yourself at that "not so cool age." Often when we don't like something about someone else, it's really something we don't like about ourselves.

Not liking her fashion sense or thinking yourself more attractive than she is does not make you a "stuck-up, bitch," but letting that allow you to treat her differently than you would someone else would.

You say she's a nice girl. Why not give her a little subtle guidance? For example, if she compliments you one something, say "Thanks, I got it at ______. You should check them out."

[Msterbeau]

Maybe this girl bothers you because she reminds you of yourself at that "not so cool age." Often when we don't like something about someone else, it's really something we don't like about ourselves.

Not liking her fashion sense or thinking yourself more attractive than she is does not make you a "stuck-up, bitch," but letting that allow you to treat her differently than you would someone else would.

You say she's a nice girl. Why not give her a little subtle guidance? For example, if she compliments you one something, say "Thanks, I got it at ______. You should check them out."

+1

[livininxtcgoth]

You seem like a decent enough person, so I don't dislike you. And I won't automatically assume you're a vain, stuck-up bitch.

thank you. i know that that whole post certainly did not make me out to be the nicest person in the world and i appreciate that you can look beyond a specific incident

But that comment by itself is EXTREMELY stuck-up. I don't understand why biohazard goggles would qualify someone as "sensible," and I further don't understand why having bought them at Hot Topic would nullify that sensibility. What's so great about biohazard goggles, other than the fact that YOU think they're fashionable? And what's so bad about Hot Topic? I constantly hear people bitch about it and the "posers" that shop there, but... why? Is it so chilling to think that one's style may be getting more mainstream? And if that's the case, how shallow is that? I don't remember reading in the Gothique Bible that Gothique Attire must be bought secondhand.

(please excuse my fashion rant--i will admit i'm a total fashion nut and i probably think way too much about such things)

to myself and my circle of friends accessories such as goggles are definitely considered "cool" and the addition of such an accessory to an ensemble would redeem any undesirable quality of that ensemble and its projection of the person wearing it because it shows that that person has knowledge of and a fondness for the slightly more underground and respectable "cybergoth/rivethead" subgenre of goth (more respectable and underground in comparison to the "hot topic goth")

purchasing such an item at hot topic nullifies that redemption because most "trendy" accessories and clothes are bought there on impulse, it is seen and liked and purchased. this makes it almost certain that you do not understand the cultural significance or reference of that item. the significance/reference in this case being the "cybergoth/rivethead" subculture and the music from that subculture that is far more reputable in the "goth" culture than the general music in mainstream society that is considered by mainstream society to be "goth" (ie marilyn manson, etc)

and i have a confession: i shop at hot topic (mostly just the clearance rack cuz its stuff no one else wanted or lingerie or an item here or there). however, i also shop at heavy red, lip service, noir leather, numerous UK and german sites, and make my own clothes. i can also easily drop 100-200$ at charlotte russe and forever 21 and i get all my basics at walmart. the thing is, i can diversify my wardrobe and create my own ensembles and fashion concoctions by mixing and matching any little thing that i happen to like. and this is what i believe individuals should do. i have a severe distaste for sticking to cookie cutter ideas of what you should and should not wear and how to put an outfit together, and that is exactly what hot topic does. because hot topic is pretty much the only mainstream store that kids have access to it is almost the only image they get of what they're "supposed" to look like as a "goth/emo/punk/whathaveyou". my displeasure towards hot topic is based solely on the fact that they open up such a narrow window for youth and the general public to look into the gothic and punk rock cultures and its monopoly on this part of the industry has closed all doors to other aspects and parts of "the scene"

And hon, I know this is abrasive, but... you asked. And I guess this is more directed at everyone who's anti-Hot Topic and the people who shop there. Goth should be about honesty, personality, and open-mindedness, not how cheap or expensive or original or mass-produced one's clothes are.

i appreciate your honesty, i know it is what i asked for. i do believe exactly that, in fact that ALL people should value honesty personality and openmindedness, as well as individuality, creativity, intelligence, etc.

which is exactly what i strive for. but your clothes and how you present yourself phsycially give an impression as to who you are and most of the time say a lot about who you are on the inside. for example i'm not going to walk into a classroom looking for a person to sit next to that i could possibly have similar interests with and perhaps develop a casual friendship with and decide that the large black man with a 10 pound chain on his neck and rapper merchandise all over him would be my best bet.

but ya... in response to more of everyone ya i do know that i am being fairly closed-minded. it cant hurt to be nicer to her. i know that when i was 16 i would much rather have had someone to show me the ways in which i could improve my image rather than having to figure it out myself....

[BrassFusion]

I still don't see how your "fashion sense" is so much better than hers, and well... I've been through phases, myself.

What I've learned after the phases passed is to dress for myself and screw what other people think. When looking for people to socialize with, I don't judge based on attire, because anyone I might want to talk to might be following the same personal rule I do.

Rather than just being nice to her *in spite* of her clothes, or giving her advice in the form of left-handed compliments... try not to assume you're better than she is.

[jadnifer]

after reading this, all I have to say is PLEASE be a bit more kind to her. She could turn out to be your best friend if you only give her a chance.

I was treated like this a lot especially in high school, I dressed dark but wasnt necessarily "goth". I still wouldnt really be considered "goth" sometimes I just cant afford the stuff that is included in it.

I do shop at salvation stores and also at HOT TOPIC. I dont know if anyone thinks I shouldnt but maybe I need some gudance too. everyone does at some point.

Maybe a little help is all you need to give her. I dont believe in coincidence. Maybe you were meant to help her out. I wasnt made fun of really for dressing dark but the fact that I was a tomboy, a bigger girl, and intelligent, and people just didnt like that. I know how it feels, and I dont want anyone else to feel that way.

I wouldnt call you a vain stuck up bitch though. You are being honest about how you feel about her.

Im being honest too as you should be. Give her an honest chance. You are honest about everything else.

[sass_in_the_pants]

so i've always considered myself totally not an elitist-- i've been under the impression for the whole 19 years i've been alive that i dont really consider myself better than other people (for the most part, within reason) and that i dont act like i'm better than others. i've been able to recognize my superior characteristics (i may be more talented in some aspects, more phsycially attractive in some ways, or just more friendly or nicer) in a reasonably humble manor without developing a huge unattractive ego.

or so i thought.

but there's this girl in my business 1010 class that's made me think otherwise.

she's basically a "hot topic goth". the type with a strict uniform of black tshirts with sarcastic sayings on them and cheap overpiced tripp guy's bondage pants. i was like this at one point when i was like 14. but at least i was still interested in better music than i looked like i was and at around 16 i developed something called good taste and fashion sense. now i had hope for her sensibility when i saw she was wearing biohazard goggles, but lost this immediately upon learning she bought them as well at hot topic. aside from that she's also not physically the type of person i normally try to associate myself with and/or find myself in the company of. to put it plainly, she's not winning any beauty pageants in the near future, and she's about one extra cookie away from fitting rather snugly into the desks in class.

this girl is really nice. she comes up to me every day and gushes about some aspect of my ensemble, continually tries to engage me in conversation, she participates in class almost as much as i do (yes, i participate in classes-- i derive great pleasure from quickly astounding teachers/professors with the fact that the pierced freak in dreadlocks and vynyl is by far better of a student than every miss america in the room). so she's polite, friendly, and intelligent, and from her persistant attempts to be more sociable than i'm being its very obvious that she desires my friendship.

and so i try to carry on polite conversation with her, i try to return her compliments, and i try to push away this voice in the back of my head saying "ew, she is so not cool enough to be friends with you" but i just cant. she's obviously a good person so i try to get over myself and allow a friendship develop, but at the end of class every day, she leaves with me from the room saying "see you later, enjoy your next class" and i scuttle in the other direction muttering "yeah thanx u too"

so here's where you all come in...

am i a bitch and i should just get over this or is there any justification at all in my vanity?

please be really honest with me, i can take it

You are not required to be friends with every nice person you meet. Really. So, if somehow you and her don't click, don't worry about it. You ARE however REQUIRED to be kind and polite to her, which, for the most part, sounds like you are. So, when she chats with you, chat back. When she is pleasant, be pleasant backAsk her how she is doing, what's new with her, blah blah blah. And if she wants to make plans with you outside of school and you are not comfortable with that, tell her you are busy. Don't give her some crazy ass story as to why you're busy, just say "It is so nice of you to think of me, but I'm afraid I've already made plans" and if your plans are sitting on your ass watching cartoons, so be it. Just don't tell HER those are your plans.

And think of it this way - she's in your business 1010 class...which means she will be with you for the next FOUR years...and there will be projects, dreaded "GROUP" projects....and when the professor (who, by way, most likely is not at all shocked about your appearance or your smarts) says those horrible, horrible words "Find a partner" and some dildo head says he wants to be your partner and you say (still politely) "No, thank you. I already found one" and you and Miss Goggles kick ASS on some project, I PROMISE you that you will be very grateful that you have been so exceedingly kind to this polite, friendly and intelligent woman.

[pharoh]

Just remember that clothes don't make the person, no matter where they get it or how much they pay for it.....thats just BS and it's quite immature.

Like Marc said some ppl just rub you the wrong way, there are people here that do that often to each other on certain topics, others you will totally aggree with, and it's right as an individual to make your own decisions. I try to give people a fair chance, and I try not to make harsh judgements, but even I catch myself in doing it at times.

Now here comes the part where you might disaggree with me. I, Like Brassfusion and a very blunt and honest person to the point to where it sometimes is offensive, but if you don't like her then just tell her to go the hell away and then call her a poser and kick her in the crotch lol

[The Kanuck]

Rather than just being nice to her *in spite* of her clothes, or giving her advice in the form of left-handed compliments... try not to assume you're better than she is.

Now I know you are blunt in this and everything but I don't remember her saying anywhere that she was better then her, that she just does not like how she dresses. I know for most of us that if you see a guy wearing "gangster gear" or wears beat up, crappy, holy clothes that never changes and smells of dirt and sweat that you will probably turn around and not want to do anything with them. They might be the nicest people in the world but we all have standards we set and all of us have certian things we look for in people. Now I am not saying that you should be mean to people if they are not 100% like you but I am not saying bend over backwards to make everyone happy. I am saying is, if you find them intersting, appealing on the eyes (because face it people, we live in a world where looks matter) and if they don't bug the fuck out of you later in life then be friends. If you honestly don't want to be next to them, then back off and try to get it so you don't have to be near them, they might get the point.

I have been on both sides of this view, more often then not on the side where I am kicked to the side but hey it is how the world works. I don't go home and cry about it or worry. I moved on and tried to improve myself based on that.

Call me cruel and call me evil but hey, like what most of you guys are saying, Don't care what people think.

P.S. Left-Handed Compleiments? Should I be taking offence to this? Saying my advice (since I am left handed) different then Right-Handed Compleiments?

[Brenda Starrr]

Because I can just smell where this could go......

No insults. Treat each other with respect. And remember......

NONE of us are perfect.

[LuluVox]

aside from that she's also not physically the type of person i normally try to associate myself with and/or find myself in the company of. to put it plainly, she's not winning any beauty pageants in the near future, and she's about one extra cookie away from fitting rather snugly into the desks in class.

this girl is really nice. she comes up to me every day and gushes about some aspect of my ensemble, continually tries to engage me in conversation, she participates in class almost as much as i do (yes, i participate in classes-- i derive great pleasure from quickly astounding teachers/professors with the fact that the pierced freak in dreadlocks and vynyl is by far better of a student than every miss america in the room). so she's polite, friendly, and intelligent, and from her persistant attempts to be more sociable than i'm being its very obvious that she desires my friendship.

please be really honest with me, i can take it

Hm, I don't really understand what you're asking here. So you have physical appearance requirements for your friends. Or at least that's what I'm gathering from your saying she's not "physically the type of person i normally try to associate myself with and/or find myself in the company of." I mean, if you're okay with that aspect of your personality, then I wouldn't worry about the fact that you don't like this girl, since basically the reason you don't like her is because she doesn't live up to your physical standards, or isn't cool enough, as you put it, and not because she's not a nice person.

So, if this situation is bugging you, maybe you need to do a little introspection to figure out if you're really as okay with that aspect of yourself as you thought you were. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting this post, and you're not so much having an internal conflict about it as looking for backup and support from us in the way you feel?

To me, though, it seems like you're acting friendly to her on the surface, and then basically writing her off in your mind and to us here, and that's seeming somewhat two-faced to me. But that's just my opinion based on how I conduct myself, and doesn't apply to you unless you decide it should.

[livininxtcgoth]

P.S. Left-Handed Compleiments? Should I be taking offence to this? Saying my advice (since I am left handed) different then Right-Handed Compleiments?

no honey but i do think you should be able to spell "compliments" correctly, especially when it was already presented for your reference teehee

Hm, I don't really understand what you're asking here. So you have physical appearance requirements for your friends. Or at least that's what I'm gathering from your saying she's not "physically the type of person i normally try to associate myself with and/or find myself in the company of." I mean, if you're okay with that aspect of your personality, then I wouldn't worry about the fact that you don't like this girl, since basically the reason you don't like her is because she doesn't live up to your physical standards, or isn't cool enough, as you put it, and not because she's not a nice person.

So, if this situation is bugging you, maybe you need to do a little introspection to figure out if you're really as okay with that aspect of yourself as you thought you were. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting this post, and you're not so much having an internal conflict about it as looking for backup and support from us in the way you feel?

To me, though, it seems like you're acting friendly to her on the surface, and then basically writing her off in your mind and to us here, and that's seeming somewhat two-faced to me. But that's just my opinion based on how I conduct myself, and doesn't apply to you unless you decide it should.

i do not have certain "coolness" requirements for my friends, nor do i require my friends meet any requirement of physical attractiveness. i have a lot of really close friends that are not the most attractive people in the world, and most of them are like myself quite dorky. we became friends because of some aspect(s) of our personalities that we almost immediately saw as very similar to each other.

we have been bred by society to desire the company of beautiful people, beauty is attractive to us. i'll admit i've been a bit more conditioned than maybe some other people have to prefer beauty because of some major inner struggles i have with the concept of what is physically beautiful--i've been struggling for a few years with an eating disorder and can get into some serious funks of self-loathing based solely on my personal appearance. generally i've been a bit better as of late, but anywho, its just a fact

we want to be around beautiful people (why do you think people are so interested in celebrities, especially the more attractive ones?) as a conditioned preference--- i dont dislike people based on their physical appearance, i've very quickly learned that many people are way cooler and nicer and funner than a lot of other people who may just look more "beautiful" than they do.

me saying that she's not as physically attractive as those whom i normally find myself drawn to the presence of is simply an aknowledgement of this subconscious thought process, not that i refuse to develop a friendship with someone whom i dont find physically attractive.

and about me being two-faced, no that's not the case, its just that i can recognize how stupid and vain my thoughts are so why would i let those show through to such a nice individual? we are all often much nicer to people than they deserve so why would i not be as nice to someone as they DO deserve? she in no way deserves for me to treat her like the stuck-up bitchy voice in the back of my head says i should.

therefore ya most of you are really right, i should be even more friendly, and more genuinely friendly towards her. she could very well be a very good friend, at least a casual friend or acquaintance.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I was thinking about your problem yesterday when I suddenly remembered my friend Elle.

I first met Elle in...92 I think, and for the next four years, since we travelled in the same circles, we saw eachother quite frequently. I never quite understood what my friend Steph saw in her, but she was Steph's friend, and so of course, I was always polite and sweet and interested in what she had to say. I found her nearly intolerable, but there was certainly no reason to let her know that, so I continued to be exceedingly friendly.

Fast forward to 98 - she had moved away for a couple of years and then, on some random Thursday night, I ran into her at the bar and we got to chatting.

After a brief catch up, she said "Y'know, I know back when I lived here you thought I was the greatest thing ever, and I'm sorry I never befriended you while I was here."

And I said "Actually, I thought you were a bitch. I was just being nice to you."

And she said "Really? I thought YOU were such a loser, and I was just being nice to you!"

We both told stories that started with "Do you remember that time you ____? "

And the other person would say "Did I REALLY do that? Oh my God! No wonder you thought I was a bitch!"

We laughed until we cried. She offered to drive me home but instead we somehow convinced eachother that going to Graceland would be a better idea. So we went, and have been inseperable ever since.

I know everyone already said that you might actually like her, but my point here is that you might not like her at ALL right now, but you'll change, and so will she. You don't know what you (or she) will be like in ten years. It is absolutely worth it to shut up that voice in your head and be exceedingly nice to EVERYONE at ALL times. Don't burn this bridge.

Oh, and I have to agree with you - being kind to someone you dislike is NOT called "two-faced". It's called graciousness and it's a skill I think the whole world would do well to learn.

[Scary Guy]

You ARE however REQUIRED to be kind and polite to her, which, for the most part,

Just wanted to point out that's not really a requirement, but it is a nice thing to do.

I just hate it when people tell me I'm required to do something. I'm not required to do anything. I'll decide if I wish to or not based on how I'm feeling at that moment. I also believe that the same thing goes for everyone else.

[Steven]

I was thinking about your problem yesterday when I suddenly remembered my friend Elle.

I first met Elle in...92 I think, and for the next four years, since we travelled in the same circles, we saw eachother quite frequently. I never quite understood what my friend Steph saw in her, but she was Steph's friend, and so of course, I was always polite and sweet and interested in what she had to say. I found her nearly intolerable, but there was certainly no reason to let her know that, so I continued to be exceedingly friendly.

Fast forward to 98 - she had moved away for a couple of years and then, on some random Thursday night, I ran into her at the bar and we got to chatting.

After a brief catch up, she said "Y'know, I know back when I lived here you thought I was the greatest thing ever, and I'm sorry I never befriended you while I was here."

And I said "Actually, I thought you were a bitch. I was just being nice to you."

And she said "Really? I thought YOU were such a loser, and I was just being nice to you!"

We both told stories that started with "Do you remember that time you ____? "

And the other person would say "Did I REALLY do that? Oh my God! No wonder you thought I was a bitch!"

We laughed until we cried. She offered to drive me home but instead we somehow convinced eachother that going to Graceland would be a better idea. So we went, and have been inseperable ever since.

I know everyone already said that you might actually like her, but my point here is that you might not like her at ALL right now, but you'll change, and so will she. You don't know what you (or she) will be like in ten years. It is absolutely worth it to shut up that voice in your head and be exceedingly nice to EVERYONE at ALL times. Don't burn this bridge.

Oh, and I have to agree with you - being kind to someone you dislike is NOT called "two-faced". It's called graciousness and it's a skill I think the whole world would do well to learn.

I dug the hell out of this post. awesome.

[Steven]

Because I can just smell where this could go......

No insults. Treat each other with respect. And remember......

NONE of us are perfect.

Brenda have I told you lately that I LOVE your signature????