Abortion

[TitsMcGee]

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis and tuberculosis, and the father was alcoholic, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

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If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.

This is a different thread all together but personally I think people should have to take a test before being allowed to have kids.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis and tuberculosis, and the father was alcoholic, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

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If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.

*says yes because he doesn't like beethoven anyway* *joins the "abortion in support of Chopin" league*

[n0Mad]

*says yes because he doesn't like beethoven anyway* *joins the "abortion in support of Chopin" league*

Well played sir.

My Tchaikovsky can kick your Chopin's ass any day, especially considering his tag team partner is Saint-Saens.

[phee]

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis and tuberculosis, and the father was alcoholic, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

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If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.

Actually I have heard that argument.... and they have no idea what Beethovens family was like.... that is a misnomer

But lets make the oppisite argument for giggles (and this one is actually based in fact):

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 3 kids already, two died of diptheria before they were two, one died as a stillborn, and the father was known to have fathered several illegitimate children with peasants while a customs gaurd, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

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Congradulations you just killed Adolf Hitler!!! So everyone have an abortion today.... (sorry the whole Beethoven thing is an argument with a lot of holes)

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Actually I have heard that argument.... and they have no idea what Beethovens family was like.... that is a misnomer

But lets make the oppisite argument for giggles (and this one is actually based in fact):

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 3 kids already, two died of diptheria before they were two, one died as a stillborn, and the father was known to have fathered several illegitimate children with peasants while a customs gaurd, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

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Congradulations you just killed Adolf Hitler!!! So everyone have an abortion today.... (sorry the whole Beethoven thing is an argument with a lot of holes)

your not allowed to post while I'm eating...i almost choked on my grilled chicken salad

[phee]

your not allowed to post while I'm eating...i almost choked on my grilled chicken salad

Heh....

[n0Mad]

(sorry the whole Beethoven thing is an argument with a lot of holes)

By the letter, there are a few holes. By the spirit, there is no way to predict whether a fetus will become somebody great or somebody terrible. I'm sure we all know people who have had shit childhoods but gone on to achieve many great things. I'm sure we all know people who had great childhoods but gone on to do terrible things. If you want to play name three, I bet we all could, of each.

[Guest Megalicious]

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis and tuberculosis, and the father was alcoholic, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

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If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.

How many sad, abused, neglected, raped, tortured, emotionally fucked up kids are out there for every ONE Beethoven??

You know why kids are neglected, abused and not look after, IT'S REALLY SIMPLE. They weren't really wanted to begin with.

As for Beethoven's mother and others like her, I suggest you pick up a copy of motherhood in bondage. And no its not what you think.

Mothers where begging for some sort of birth control, to stop having kids.

If there was birthcontrol back then, there is a chance that there would be NO Beethoven, that doesn't mean your anti-birth control (at least I hope not.).

And know I wouldn't agree with that, if you read my posts I clearly state that things are NOT black and white, I would agree that is was her choice to have it or not, alot of other things are to be considered not just the obvious.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

As for Beethoven's mother and others like her, I suggest you pick up a copy of motherhood in bondage. And no its not what you think.

*tosses away his copy*...DAMMIT...I was hoping for MILFs in leather....

[Guest Megalicious]

*tosses away his copy*...DAMMIT...I was hoping for MILFs in leather....

Exactly

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Hey Now... it is possible to "accidently" fuck someone. I know this becaue i "accidently" fucked the someone.

I was in bed, asleep and dreaming... It was ofcourse dark in my room. Someone naked got in my bed. My hands wandered... her body Felt like my girlfriends body. She never said anything.

I didn;t know it wasn't my girl friend until the morning when I rolled over for seconds... and well... got a surprise.

[TygerLili]

I do think abortions should be legal during the first trimester. I don't really agree with the abortion as birth control method, but at the same time, I'd much rather see a woman get an abortion than have the baby and neglect or abuse it. I don't want to hear the "give it up for adoption" arguement. I doubt many would argue that adoption is a very noble choice, but many women just aren't physically or emotionally capable of carrying a baby for nine months to give it up. As someone who has never been pregnant, I would never tell a women that she had to go through pregnancy and give the baby up for adoption because it's the right thing to do. How the hell do I know what's the right thing to do in her situation? That's why it's her choice.

I think that in cases or rape, incest, danger to the mother, the mother being under 13 years of age, or the fetus having some sort of incurable disease or deformity that would cut its life short, abortion should undisputably be an option.

And yes, I do believe that if you can't handle the chance of getting pregnant that you shouldn't be having sex in the first place, which is why I made a conscious decision not to have sex while I was a teenager, but not everyone is that responsible. I personally could not have an abortion unless I was raped or carrying the child to term could endanger my life, but I still think others should have the right to choose.

And I do feel that men get the short end of the stick when it comes to abortion, but I can't come up with a reasonable way to change it that doesn't take away the woman's right to her own physical and emotional health.

I think if a woman is pregnant and knows that she cant take care of the baby, isnt ready or just doesnt want the baby she can get an abortion. Alot of people say have the baby and do adoption. Most women dont want to go that far with a pregnancy just to give up the baby. A full term pregnancy puts alot on a females body. Then think about it when its time for your job to send you home for your maternity leave your broke until your back at work, your giving birth to a baby you dont want. You could have complications with a pregnancy that you didnt want. Your paying for shit you donr need like maternity clothes, emergency room visits, extra food and crap on top of crap. If a woman doesnt want a baby she has the right to have an abortion. There is nothing wrong with abortions in my eyes.

You know, to play devil's advocate, usually when you choose the couple to adopt your baby they will offer to cover all baby related expenses, like doctor visits, vitamins, etc. for you.

[Guest Megalicious]

Hey Now... it is possible to "accidently" fuck someone. I know this becaue i "accidently" fucked the someone.

I was in bed, asleep and dreaming... It was ofcourse dark in my room. Someone naked got in my bed. My hands wandered... her body Felt like my girlfriends body. She never said anything.

I didn;t know it wasn't my girl friend until the morning when I rolled over for seconds... and well... got a surprise.

Thats fucked up. ... How could she not say something to you ... Wow. That is so disrespectful and violating, Sorry gaf =(

[know_buddy_kares]

Thats fucked up. ... How could she not say something to you ... Wow. That is so disrespectful and violating, Sorry gaf =(

hell no, that's the perfect "get out of jail free card" for having sex with someone else!!

[Rayne]

You DO realise that people can take every precaution possible (aside from out-and-out abstinance, which is unrealistic IMO), and *still* end up pregnant? Condoms break, pills stop working, and even tubes can come untied.

<----- Living proof.

I've been on pills, patches, rings and even had a tubal ligation ... I have four kids. Not that I regret it -- it just happened that way, no planning. I would have more, but I've had a few miscarriages due to the Endometriosis. Yeah, I got that too.

I am evidently in the 1% of the population that birth control just does not work for.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I'm sure you all know the history of Planned Parenthood, right? They're the largest provider of abortions in America and they were founded by Margaret Sanger, a proponent of eugenics. She believed that the 'unfit' - more specifically black Americans - should not procreate. Her dreams are coming true. 78% of abortion clinics are in or near minority neighborhoods and abortion is the leading cause of death in the African-American community. This is why the King family is staunchly pro-life. It's easy to kill The Dream when The Dreamer isn't even allowed out of the womb. So, you see, since I am opposed to eugenics and racism, I am also opposed to abortion, since it promotes both.

There are two facts which I cannot deny:

1. What a woman has sucked out of her during an abortion, is a human being. The terms 'fetus' and 'zygote' reflect stages of development, in much the same way the words 'teenager' and 'senior citizen' do. It is, in fact, human for the entire time.

2. I believe ALL humans share the same inherent dignity and as such, there is NEVER justification for the taking of an innocent life. NEVER.

So there you have it.

Over 48 million babies have been aborted since roe v wade. For comparison, that's like wiping the entire nation of Spain off the planet. Roe, by the way, regrets her abortion. She is now pro-life.

This is no way suggests I am not sympathetic to a woman going through a crisis pregnancy. Actually quite the opposite. I think we live in a very backwards world...the message in our culture says 'You can have sex without consequences! No really, it's great!' and then the woman ends up pregnant and we tell her to go get an abortion - never mind HER emotional well-being.

Phee, the determination that life begins at conception is not arbitrary. Thinking about sex does not generate a unique person. It is only conception that does. Sperm, not joined with an egg, will become...nothing. An egg, not joined with sperm, will become...nothing.

Meg - I don't understand why one abortion would be okay, but, say, fifteen would not be. By the way, 48% of women seeking an abortion have already had at least one.

[Msterbeau]

IMO: it is murder...plain and simple. It is NOT a limb, or an organ of the body, because it has seperate functions and a seperate brainwave pattern. It has it's OWN DNA...it is, at conception, a unique entity. There is tons of medical proof of this. There was a case a few years back: a drunk driver hit a pregnant woman in her car. She survived, but the fetus dies in the womb. He is currently serving a sentence of 15 years for Vehicular Homicide. She was on her way to get an abortion that day.

Also...don't try the "product of rape" bit please. Ok...it's terriable that you were raped. I understand the trauma. But to DENY another person their right to an existance is what the crimes of Homicide are all BASED ON.

Either way it's cut...our founding judicial laws, laid upon simple moral standings, state that what an Abortion is in real life: Murder.

I'm going to say two things and then I'm done.

One - GodFallen: You've stated quite clearly your position in your first post. Why do you feel it necessary to reiterate it over and over again responding to other posts? Whether your position is right or wrong, it's incredibly annoying and means everyone reading this has double the amount to read for no additional value or insight. Please stop.

Two - I largely agree with Mark with some small differences but I'm not in the mood to explain at length.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Meg - I was cool with it. When I was young and had not taken an oath to be faithfull to one person, I had a very self centered view of sex. As in, as long as I was getting laid, I didn't really care who it was with.

KBK - See above. I didn't really care if my girlfriend found out.

[Guest Megalicious]

Meg - I don't understand why one abortion would be okay, but, say, fifteen would not be.

Because I believe in the right of choice, but not in the right to use it as a form of birth control, if you believed your pregnancy is a mistake, and you choose to abort, you should learn from that mistake, not just sleep around not caring say to yourself " oh, well if I end up pregnant, I'll just get another abortion" .

[Guest Megalicious]

Meg - I was cool with it. When I was young and had not taken an oath to be faithfull to one person, I had a very self centered view of sex. As in, as long as I was getting laid, I didn't really care who it was with.

You little man whore Mark

edit to say: Use to be that is!

[Rev.Reverence]

Actually I have heard that argument.... and they have no idea what Beethovens family was like.... that is a misnomer

But lets make the oppisite argument for giggles (and this one is actually based in fact):

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 3 kids already, two died of diptheria before they were two, one died as a stillborn, and the father was known to have fathered several illegitimate children with peasants while a customs gaurd, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Congradulations you just killed Adolf Hitler!!! So everyone have an abortion today.... (sorry the whole Beethoven thing is an argument with a lot of holes)

REALLY PHEE.....Two hits on Hitler in threads in one day!

WE ARE SmoKin'!!!

[Goth Brooks]

~6.7 billion people in the world

Not only am I pro choice, in a lot of cases I would be pro-enforced abortion, pro-sterilization, and I also believe in the parents' absolute right to strangle their fuckin kids if they scream at walmart.

I'm sure many of you have had a parent say "I brought you into this world, I can take you out..." I'd like to see that brought back.

p.s. - http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/aug/06083002.html

Remember this?

That child may not have even survived the pregnancy, that alone after having survived a rape. Taking that choice away from her is far more barbaric than any of the sick nihilistic things I've spouted in my time on the internet.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Meg, I'm not picking on you here, I just so happened to pull two of your comments...

How many sad, abused, neglected, raped, tortured, emotionally fucked up kids are out there for every ONE Beethoven??

You know why kids are neglected, abused and not look after, IT'S REALLY SIMPLE. They weren't really wanted to begin with.

What I don't understand here is this was EXACTLY what birth control pills and abortion were supposed to stop. This is what the birth control industry and the abortion industries said - they promised us a brave new world where, since obviously every kid who would now exist would be wanted, there would no longer be children who were abused and neglected. And that's NOT what we got. We got 48 million dead babies and children are STILL getting mistreated.

Because I believe in the right of choice, but not in the right to use it as a form of birth control, if you believed your pregnancy is a mistake, and you choose to abort, you should learn from that mistake, not just sleep around not caring say to yourself " oh, well if I end up pregnant, I'll just get another abortion" .

What if a woman just keeps making alot of mistakes? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, really I'm not, but I hear people say this 'It should be available but not as a form of birth control' and it confuses me. The whole point of an abortion is to prevent the birth of a child so by definition abortion is a form of birth control. I understand what you are saying - you think it should not be used as regular birth control, but then when you say it's a woman's body and she can choose to abort her unborn baby, well, when a woman goes in for her third or fourth abortion, it's STILL her body, right? Why shouldn't she be allowed to terminate as many babies as she pleases?

[sass_in_the_pants]

I do think abortions should be legal during the first trimester.

You know, to play devil's advocate, usually when you choose the couple to adopt your baby they will offer to cover all baby related expenses, like doctor visits, vitamins, etc. for you.

Why not the second or the third? What's different?

And you aren't playing devil's advocate, that's just plain truth. If you are giving up your child for adoption, or even if you are keeping the baby there are many free health options available (I know - I used them!)

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I'm going to say two things and then I'm done.

One - GodFallen: You've stated quite clearly your position in your first post. Why do you feel it necessary to reiterate it over and over again responding to other posts? Whether your position is right or wrong, it's incredibly annoying and means everyone reading this has double the amount to read for no additional value or insight. Please stop.

Two - I largely agree with Mark with some small differences but I'm not in the mood to explain at length.

I have to keep re-iterating it because everyone keeps wanting to toss the DEFINITION aside for personal convienence....calling a duck a swan doesn't make it a swan. WHen you all stop calling it a swan...I'll stop pulling the white paint on the feathers back to reveal the duck.