The Chip

[Steven]

I don't like chips. Too salty, mostly. Is the beast salty?

...AND SWEET

[ttogreh]

Well, we are obviously never going to get to any sort of agreement on the holistic nature and reason for the sacred texts.

As for the mark of the beast, I think an argument can be made that it can be interpreted in the modern era as a warning against allowing state control of commerce and daily life to become onerous. The Preterist view of 666 is that it is a mistranslation of Nero Ceasar's gematria, which is 616.

The sacred texts should be used as a guide to modern life, but they should also be looked upon in light of their original meaning. A person who discounts the history of a text is a person who is doomed to never fully understand it.

Indeed, even with a holistic view of the texts, people will disagree, as is evident in this debate.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Wow, you just refuse to be in the same conversation as everyone else...

[ttogreh]

Gaf, you are NOT Steven, and you do NOT speak for him. If you would like to comment on what I wrote in a constructive manner, and leave your petty personal attacks against me out of it, I am more than willing to engage you in thoughtful debate.

[Steven]

Well, we are obviously never going to get to any sort of agreement on the holistic nature and reason for the sacred texts.

As for the mark of the beast, I think an argument can be made that it can be interpreted in the modern era as a warning against allowing state control of commerce and daily life to become onerous. The Preterist view of 666 is that it is a mistranslation of Nero Ceasar's gematria, which is 616.

The sacred texts should be used as a guide to modern life, but they should also be looked upon in light of their original meaning. A person who discounts the history of a text is a person who is doomed to never fully understand it.

Indeed, even with a holistic view of the texts, people will disagree, as is evident in this debate.

english bitte, and are we not going to answer any questions? Im not trying to win an argument with you here - Im asking for some more detail into your personal perspective....you have a tendency to glean over things when citing points of reference. Im jsut saying ok cool - tell me what you think and why. I feel as if we've yet to really get into any nitty gritties and all we've covered is historical archives.

plus, what gaf said.

and can you go into "Holistic" as you've used it here? I dont understand the concept your introducing.

[ttogreh]

I feel that my personal perspective is irrelevant if I cannot back it up with facts, figures, and history. As to what I think, I think that there are plenty of reasons to not allow Rfid chips or any other modern technology to give the state more power. Some of those reasons can be found in the sacred texts.

Holism is the analysis of the whole instead of a separation of it into parts. To look at something holistically is to look at the where, when, how, and why of it, all at the same time.

[Steven]

I feel that my personal perspective is irrelevant if I cannot back it up with facts, figures, and history. As to what I think, I think that there are plenty of reasons to not allow Rfid chips or any other modern technology to give the state more power. Some of those reasons can be found in the sacred texts.

Holism is the analysis of the whole instead of a separation of it into parts. To look at something holistically is to look at the where, when, how, and why of it, all at the same time.

out of curiosity...you use this same Holistic approach with other facets of your life?

Im somewhat suprised (but then not, you are linear to the tenth power) - by your statments about being able to "back it up". The problem with that approach is that people are different, and they pull from different sorts of "facts" and values within them....case in point, my use of the lifestyles and impact made by John the Beloved and the rest of the 12. To me its just as critical in the process and is worthy of a think over.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I never said I was Steven.

I was also unaware this was a private conversation.

I wasn't attacking you.. I was pointing out that though you are citing all kinds of sources for your beliefs, you are not actually saying anything to the topic at hand.

See, your focusing on 666, Steven flat out asked you if you thought the RF chips were a modern "mark of the beast"...

and you have not even come close to answering that yet... your still stuck in the conversation ab out 666.

[ttogreh]

Yes, I do try to look at all aspects of my life from a holistic point of view.

As for the point of John the Beloved and the other 11, their efforts would be meaningless without the toil and perseverance of the early saints during the first three hundred years. If no one reads my words... did I write them at all?

EDIT for Gaf:

As for the mark of the beast, I think an argument can be made that it can be interpreted in the modern era as a warning against allowing state control of commerce and daily life to become onerous.

The only two possibilities for you to make your assertion that I did not address the matter of Rfid chips is you either did not read what I wrote, or you are lying. Stop lying, or start reading my words.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Hostile much?

I'm done with you.

[ttogreh]

... And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why personal attacks are considered logical fallacies.

[Steven]

Yes, I do try to look at all aspects of my life from a holistic point of view.

As for the point of John the Beloved and the other 11, their efforts would be meaningless without the toil and perseverance of the early saints during the first three hundred years. If no one reads my words... did I write them at all?

let's honor the original focus of the group and start up a new thread to discuss this.

I would like to hear more on why you beleive this, specifically this last point you made.

[predaking]

your missing the spiritual connotations of my point - and thats ok - Im just sayign that a person like me is faith motivated primarily, even before I am self motivated to save my own skin.

I (personally) could not take the mark in any form, even in "borrowed" form, because I beleive that I know what it is and where it originates, and so to do so would be to yeild to my enemy.

well I really wasn't going the faith route but that is you motivation and I respect that. I did pick up on the overtones a little but I tend to shy away from them as I am not a spirtiual person and the last thing i wat to do is offend someone who is.

I can respect you not getting chiped or jacking one as well but going back to your buying and selling situation... if the health and safety of me or my family was dependent on this, someone is losing an arm.

[ttogreh]

There appears to be a much stronger emphasis against "thread drift" by the moderators on this forum than I am accustomed to. It will take some getting used to. That said, purely religious threads, or threads steeped in faith, are generally not my bag.

I believe we will have to agree to disagree on the off-topic turn that you and I are discussing, Steven.

As for Rfids... I am not a fan, and I will probably spend the rest of my life working against the spread of such technology.

[CandyQuackenbush]

If you guys want to discuss this, use your PM. Please stop the Thread Jacking.

[Homicidalheathen]

nzo Found! Vanessa Williams Must be Thrilled

June 8, 2007

Update:

The woman who found the year-old Yorkie had a friend bring it to a Stamford, Conn., animal hospital for a checkup. There, a veterinarian scanned Enzo, finding an embedded chip in him that identified his famous owner.

When Enzo was found Wednesday, there were no bite marks. The dog was just fine. And the chief said it didn’t appear there was anything suspicious behind the dog’s flight, which means Enzo - as crazy as this sounds - might have just run away.

Original Post:

The black-and-tan Yorkie that went missing from the fenced-in yard of actress Vanessa Williams on Memorial Day has been returned to a shelter, an employee of the celebrity confirmed this morning.

So far, police are saying nothing about finding Enzo, the 1-year-old Yorkshire terrier whose disappearance prompted speculation that someone might be dog-napping celebrity pets from northern Westchester.

On Mother’s Day, another celebrity pet - a blond dachshund named Gus - ran off the leash of former tabloid publisher Ken Chandler and has not been seen since.

Police said the petite pets were more likely to be victims of a coyote than a dognapper.

Both celebrities filed missing dog reports with police anyway.

By the way, that’s not a photo of Enzo but we imagine he might look something like this

[Jabberwok]

hi, just wanted to pop this one out there. when i read the passage about the mark of the beast, and how the mark would be upon the hand or the head, i couldnt help but think of bluetooth and alread existant cell phones. business is now mostly conducted on cellular tec. and i could go on and on on soooo many different examples. like i said just wanted to throw that out there

[Homicidalheathen]

So your saying we are already marked and doomed for hell? (the pimp is Satan.)

[Jabberwok]

So your saying we are already marked and doomed for hell? (the pimp is Satan.)

not quite, what im saying is that were already laying the ground work for it though. maybe not in a literal sense of hell of fire and brimstone, but a time where we completly forget about human interaction, due to fear of all things that make us human. being able to see each others faces when we talk, to mindless chatter across texting and never even knowing who we are talking to. the loss of the pain of being human, not through divine intervention, but our own fears. so affraid to live, and experience things the way we were meant to. now im not saying that eventually we'll burn forever, but traped in our own personal hell that life will become after we no longer interact through direct contact. so afraid of one another that the thought of the real world is an alien concept when you have a completly digital and mechanical existance. and hence the term left behind. as they stay forever traped in an existance where they are the center of their world and know nothing of one another.

[Homicidalheathen]

homicide is sad now.

[Jabberwok]

ahh, but maybe my idea of what the future holds for those who truly understand what it means to be human, will bring a smile to your face. there will come a time when those who understand will tire of the constant insanity that civilization has wroght. a time when in the blink of an eye, those who do understan will cast their old lives away. leaving the trappings of civilization behind. return to that which gave us existance. casting our modern world to the ground, our technology, our failed governments, our fear of how frail we are and relizing the there is nothing telling us we cant but ourselvs; leaving our cell phones, our double mocha lattes from starbucks, even our cloths on the ground where we finaly said enough of being materialistic in the least way, doing for the pure sake of doing. living free of the illusion of needing to be told what to do, and understanding finally how to live with one another. leaving all those trapped by civilation behind to their own relentless everlasting modern materialistic hell. we are free.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Putting aside the biblical implications for a minute and assuming theres no health issues from the actual chip itself: *ponders*

The last article i read about this stuff, the chip was tiny, about the size of a grain of rice. The ones i read about were removable by just about anyone if you really wanted it out causing only a bit more of a cut than diabetics get every day to check their blood sugar.

So I'm passed out with some health issue, the paramedics find me... then in say 2 seconds they can look up every last thing that is on file about my medical history, potentially saving my life. Seems like a positive to me. Little child gets lost somewhere, poof we know exactly where he is and we go find him. Positive. No need for a key to my house, and no chance of me losing the key, the house knows its me and unlocks the door, i could add or remove other people from the security list at will. Same for the car and my place of business. Seems good.

The government is going to "spy" on me to easily , or other parties are also going to spy on me without my knowledge? That is fairly unsettling if true, definitely a negative. But they can do that already , just not quite so easily right?

On balance I'm wanting not to pass judgment against the idea at least in theory.

[Steven]

not quite, what im saying is that were already laying the ground work for it though. maybe not in a literal sense of hell of fire and brimstone, but a time where we completly forget about human interaction, due to fear of all things that make us human. being able to see each others faces when we talk, to mindless chatter across texting and never even knowing who we are talking to. the loss of the pain of being human, not through divine intervention, but our own fears. so affraid to live, and experience things the way we were meant to. now im not saying that eventually we'll burn forever, but traped in our own personal hell that life will become after we no longer interact through direct contact. so afraid of one another that the thought of the real world is an alien concept when you have a completly digital and mechanical existance. and hence the term left behind. as they stay forever traped in an existance where they are the center of their world and know nothing of one another.

good job.

and I agree