Serious Weight Loss

[Onyx]

Ditto. If I ate 2000 calories a day I would gain like crazy. I actually gain at anything over 1400 a day and need to be under 1200 to lose at all. My metabolism is VERY low and sometimes that is the case with people. It's not accurate to impose a basal rate on everyone, because alot of people, women especially are just more programmed to gain.. constantly, at the drop of a hat. =)

I have to admit that once upon a time I did NOT believe that. I snobbishly figured that unless someone had diabetes they were just plain eating too much and not exercising enough. Then I hit a "certain age" and SPLAT -- my metabolism ground to a halt like I ran into a brick wall.

I did not change my eating habits at all. I did not change my activity at all. My metabolism just quit. Everything I ate made me gain, and it just kept going and didn't stop. A couple months ago I got to the point where I had absolutely nothing that fit anymore except a stretched out old skirt. It was horrible, especially since I have never *ever* had to work very hard at staying thin, and I really can't let my weight creep up like that since my cholesterol goes sky high with just a few extra pounds. It's critical to my health that I get the weight off and keep it off.

I have managed to begin making some progress, but with way more exercise and pretty low calories, probably a bit lower than most diets recommend, but I feel fabulous again and it's finally working after a few weeks of being stalled with no weight loss.

[Head Wreck]

rda in britan is 2000 for women, 2500 for men.

that is of course adjustable for activity amount. atm i'm on about 2K (thats with my metabolism though slowed is still quick, cuts are gone in 4 days at most) as theres a lot of sitting and waiting to move, a bit of typing and i've skipped a few training sessions due to only being needed at work whenit clashes :(

as you get older metabolism slows and that brings that figure down

[torn asunder]

No need to get upset, there alot of different bodies out there Mike. Not everyone is going to lose/gain at the same pace that is all we are saying. Leslie has a fucking awesome point with women who are wired to gain. ( I am one of those women!! AHHH!!)

What may work for you/me/her/them may not work for Sang. The key is to listen to what you body is trying to tell you... You know??

not upset - frustrated... the few women in here who are condoning a sub-basal caloric intake are perpetuating an unhealthy myth. you all can do what you think works for you, but there's no way to refute that you're subjecting yourselves to a starvation-(or borderline-) level diet. it's unhealthy, and if continued, your metabolism will slow further, requiring you to reduce even further your caloric intake, until you either aren't eating, or start to finally gain weight.

i'll see if i can dig up some links, although at this point, i doubt i'll be very effective at convincing anyone of anything...

[Nienna]

I mean no offense, but with proper nutrition within a reduced (within reason) calorie diet, there is no danger. Additionally, it is proven that if you give the body nutrition every 3-4 hours or so, providing that it is quality nutrition, you will not go into starvation mode. It's working for me. Nothing else ever has. I feel better now than I ever have. Ever. Besides, alot of medical authorities are on the reduced calorie side of the fence too.

[Gauge]

the reason your gaining when your over 1400 is because right now your body is in starvation mode, thats also why your metabolism is so low. i know this i was there i speak from experience! pretty much since i was 13-14 ive eaten very little (and yea it was decently healthy), ill admit i never gained, but thats because i was in starvation mode. ill even admit that a few months ago when i actually started eating right (between 16-1700 a day without working out) i gained a little bit but thats because my body was so hungry that everything i gave it it stored. this stoped after a week or so, still with no working out. now that im working out (around an hour or so about 3 times a week) im eating more like 17-2200 a day and ya know what? im loosing, yes i said loosing!

basil rate is based on what it takes for you brain to wake up, your organs to function, and getting your body moving. these are figures just for you to wake up and sit in bed all day, do nothing, no excersizeing just beeing. theres another thing that bother me to about all this, and thats tho whole "im programed to gain" bit. my entire family is heavy, genetically by now i should be pushing if not over 200 lbs, this is how my family has been forever! they are all "programed to gain" now do you think that for some reason im lucky enough that out of at least 5 generations im the only one whose thin? i really cant believe that!

your talking about reduced calorie diet wich is good but reduced most certainly should not put you into starvation mode.

something else to think about:

in aushwits men, women and children were abused and tortured by beeing denied food. the grown men (which i think youll all agree need more calories) on an average day were given about 1300 calories.

read it again, abused and tortured by only beeing fed 1300 a day. . . what does that tell you

[Onyx]

Nienna has been on a medically supervised diet though, and has been following their recommendations. She's lost a lot and is getting results.

I really think if you are under a doctor's close supervision one should not argue with something that is working when nothing else has before. I'm really surprised what an intense discussion this has sparked.

[Rayne]

Not to point out what already has been, but I ate nothing but junk (like Taco Bell and sugary stuff) most of my life ... I never even hit 100 lbs until I was 16 ... It took me having a c-section with my fourth kid (not with my first three I didn't have a c-section with) to hit over 120 lbs. I'm at 130-ish now (slightly under). I haven't changed my eating habits much ... I still eat mostly junk.

Some people are predisposed to weight gain ... some aren't ... some gain differently based on how they eat, some don't. Some metabolism changed due to a certain event or just because ....

LOL, I do know I have hardcore physical therapy going on twice a week, so I'll probably lose 5 - 10 lbs. by the time it's all over.

[Guest Megalicious]

Good do what ever works for you .. and I'll do what ever works for me. Please take into consideration that NOT EVERYBODYS BODY IS THE SAME!! ..

THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING AND WILL SAY!!....

all I care about, pleasing myself. I feel good, I work out 6 days a week, I eat less and better. I know I am a hell of alot healthier then I use to be so GO ME!! ... As for it being unhealthy that is just bullshit my doctor says that I'm in the best shape she has ever seen me in, so that is all the proof I need to know I am on the right track to a better me. I think I'm going to take the expert opinion of a woman who went to medical school at U of M. Something tells me ( and just call it a guess) that she has a little bit more experience ....

Sange just listen to your body honey.... your body will let you know what is right, and not right for you.

[torn asunder]

I feel good, I work out 6 days a week, I eat less and better. I know I am a hell of alot healthier then I use to be so GO ME!! ... As for it being unhealthy that is just bullshit my doctor says that I'm in the best shape she has ever seen me in, so that is all the proof I need to know I am on the right track to a better me. I think I'm going to take the expert opinion of a woman who went to medical school at U of M. Something tells me ( and just call it a guess) that she has a little bit more experience ....

Sange just listen to your body honey.... your body will let you know what is right, and not right for you.

meg, i don't mean to belittle any progress you 're making - i think it's great that you feel good about what you're doing! but now, i'm going to make some points that might make me seem like even more of a jerk on this topic...

1) just because you're "in the best shape [your doctor] has ever seen me in" doesn't mean you're a] healthy, b] going to be able to maintain it.

2) i seem to remember you're around 5'9" - let me use your height in this example...

let's say a woman is 5'9", 160#, and 25yrs old... here is the formula for base calories needed. (as i've posted in another thread)

Women BMR = 655 + (9.6 x weight in kilos) + (1.8 x height in cm) - (4.7 x age) which is...

BMR = 655 + (9.6 x 72.64) + (1.8 x 175.26) - (4.7 x 25) which gives...

BMR = 1550.312 base calories/day

now, you take this number & apply an activity multiplier to determine how many calories one would need to *maintain* that 160# weight... here's a basic guideline for activity multipliers - Activity Multiplier

Sedentary = 1.2 (little exercise, desk job)

Light Activity = 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)

Moderate Activity = 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week)

Very Active = 1.725 (heavy exercise/sports 6-7 days/week)

Extreme Activity = 1.9 (heavy exercise/sports, physically demanding job)

if the woman in the example were to exercise 6 times a week, like you are, she would probably need to use a multiplier around 1.6... this gives a result of 2480.4992 cal/day. it's that simple. you can eat a bit less to lose weight, but it's recommended not to try to lose more than 2#/wk, that's 8 pounds/month. any less than 1500 or so, calorie-wise, and one won't be able to keep up their muscle recovery/recuperation.

[Nienna]

Nienna has been on a medically supervised diet though, and has been following their recommendations. She's lost a lot and is getting results.

I really think if you are under a doctor's close supervision one should not argue with something that is working when nothing else has before. I'm really surprised what an intense discussion this has sparked.

Indeed it has, continuously and without slowing down. I have body scans every other month that show that I am actually increasing muscle mass, NOT losing it, and my bone density is off the charts for a woman. I'm sticking to this course of action. In the past when I wasn't "in starvation mode" and eating a "normal" amount of calories with 3-4 days working out, guess what?? Gaining about 2-3 lbs a week!

I really think that there is no convincing of the fact that yes, different people need different things sometimes. Using myself as an example: I come from a long line of naturally obese people. I am a cancer survivor who deals daily with the repercussions my treatments left my body with. Exercise HURTS me, and the 30-40 minutes a day, 3-4 times a week that I do is the max I am capable of. You cannot apply the same theory to my body that you can to your own, or hers, or his, or theirs. Alot more than what you are (or aren't) putting into your mouth determines how healthy you are or applicable weight loss.

I do agree that for some people what is being stated is the way to go. For me? No. It isn't. This discussion is starting to remind me of overzealous religious types who tout their religion as "the only true way!".

[torn asunder]

This discussion is starting to remind me of overzealous religious types who tout their religion as "the only true way!".

my apologies... i'll try not to give a shit anymore...

carry on, people! =)

[Troy Spiral (13)]

True, everyone is different. But usually most f these things are fairly well researched and most people do fall into fairly well defined categories. Obviously, some are in such specialized situations that the standard program wont work.

"I'm special" is such a common mantra that i think often many of us view it as a form of crying wolf. We tend to respond 'no jimmy stop crying wolf.. get your ass off the couch and put down the fucking fried chicken'. I'd say this is a fair, and accurate reaction 98% of the time. Typically the "standard" diet / exercise suggestions work just fine, but the key with all of this self-help crap is that you have to actually put it in to practice and keep at it.

When someone is in an extremely special case, unfortunately they have an uphill battle explaining it. The problem is that there are just so many parrots out there crying "im special that wont work for me" (when really it didn't work because they gave up) that these "actually" extreme situations are not taken seriously.

[Nienna]

my apologies... i'll try not to give a shit anymore...

carry on, people! =)

I'm not trying to belittle your contribution to the conversation. I'm just trying to point out that some people won't have sucess with that method is all. If theyt're nbeing smart, have researched what they're doing, and are becoming more healthy, it's a good thing!

[Medea]

I'll be honest. Regular sex has been the key to my weight loss since October. It's a fantastic form of exercise.

[Guest Megalicious]

I'll be honest. Regular sex has been the key to my weight loss since October. It's a fantastic form of exercise.

Thats a great way to lose some extra pounds .. Yay YOU!!!

[torn asunder]

I'm not trying to belittle your contribution to the conversation. I'm just trying to point out that some people won't have sucess with that method is all. If theyt're nbeing smart, have researched what they're doing, and are becoming more healthy, it's a good thing!

and i totally agree, if it's *healthy* - problem is, from what i can tell based on what's in this thread, it's not...

take this link, for example - i'll quote one of the important parts i was trying to get across...

Energy expenditure breakdown (25yr old woman used again in this example - 1550 basal calories)

liver 27% (418.5)

brain 19% (294.5)

heart 7% (108.5)

kidneys 10% (155)

skeletal muscle 18% (108.5)

other organs 19% (294.5)

when it comes to one's ultimate survival, if there aren';t enough calories to run the entire "machine", the body will sacrifice/catabolize/break down muscle for energy in order to keep the other, more important organs functioning. (brain, liver, kidneys, etc.) this can also include *heart muscle* since the body can't tell the difference. this is one of the reasons, nienna, that your very-low-cal diet is being medically supervised - your body needs to be monitored to ensure it's not harming itself in the process of fat loss. meg mentioned eating 1200 calories a day, and that's not enough to run all of her vital organs, especially if she's exercising 6x/week! what this means is that her body is breaking down muscle tissue in order to run other things, and it's a real possibility that she could be damaging her heart (among other things) by doing so.

the thing i see happen with most of the low-cal people i know, is that they'll try to increase for 2-3 days, see that they gained a few lbs, and decide it doesn't work. problem with that is 1) those 2-3 lbs are most likely just due to having the extra food in your intestines being processed, and have little to do with fat gain, 2) it can take 2-3 *weeks* for your body to adjust to a new level of caloric intake. since the body is essentially in starvation mode, it will continue to store food as fat for a little while, until it realizes it can trust you to keep feeding it. this is why it's good to slowly increase calories until the level is acceptable, rather than just jumping from, say, 1000 to 2000. once the body knows it has a constant supply of food, it will start to release the fat stores it has put away, since the "famine" is over.

i'm sorry to keep belabouring a point, but it really upsets me to see people i know & like hurting themselves & quite possibly ruining their health this way. it's kind of hard for me to "stop giving a shit", because i do care. and i feel bad, because i'm obviously not able to communicate my thoughts well enough to be convincing...

[torn asunder]

here's another couple quick links regarding calories & weight loss - it's a calculator. put your numbers in & see what yours come out to!!

Calorie calculator

Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR)

[Nienna]

I just struggle to believe that something that is sponsored, administered and endorsed by a very good hospital would be that catastrophically bad for me. Take in addition that it's working, and subsequent body scans show muscle gain, not loss, and I just have to say... You know??

I've always been a healthy eater and relatively active. I've also steadily gained weight since I hit puberty until now. the recommended caloric intake did nothing but make me fat.

[torn asunder]

I just struggle to believe that something that is sponsored, administered and endorsed by a very good hospital would be that catastrophically bad for me. Take in addition that it's working, and subsequent body scans show muscle gain, not loss, and I just have to say... You know??

i can fully support a medically supervised diet of this nature, because they're micro-managing your intake re:protein/carbs/fats, and can tailor it to your specific metabolism and body style. from what i've read, it appears to be acting similarly to the atkins diet, where the body changes over to rely on ketones for energy, instead of glucose, hence, burning fat for energy. and again, it's *medically supervised*, which means that they can catch any possible issues very early, which minimizes the inherent risks involved. thing is, most people (who eat this low) aren't being supervised, and aren't actively controlling their macros. (ratio of fats/prot./carbs) which can be disastrous. if i had any money, i'd be willing to bet that once you've lost all the body fat you're looking to, they will slowly ramp up your calories (with the proper macro ratios) to allow you to maintain your new weight. you *will* eventually need to eat more, i'm sure, but why not ask your doctors & see what they say?

I've always been a healthy eater and relatively active. I've also steadily gained weight since I hit puberty until now. the recommended caloric intake did nothing but make me fat.

it's possible you may be one of the few who actually have medical reasons for being predisposed to weight gain, but most people aren't, even if they want to believe they are. most people easily overestimate how much exercise they get, and greatly under-estimate how many calories they eat in a day. i've been using a site called FitDay.com to keep track of mine, and i was pretty surprised at how many calories i used to eat, compared to how little food i had - i was eating all the wrong things, obviously, but i digress...

meh, i gotta run - i'll be back!

[Nienna]

i can fully support a medically supervised diet of this nature, because they're micro-managing your intake re:protein/carbs/fats, and can tailor it to your specific metabolism and body style. from what i've read, it appears to be acting similarly to the atkins diet, where the body changes over to rely on ketones for energy, instead of glucose, hence, burning fat for energy. and again, it's *medically supervised*, which means that they can catch any possible issues very early, which minimizes the inherent risks involved. thing is, most people (who eat this low) aren't being supervised, and aren't actively controlling their macros. (ratio of fats/prot./carbs) which can be disastrous. if i had any money, i'd be willing to bet that once you've lost all the body fat you're looking to, they will slowly ramp up your calories (with the proper macro ratios) to allow you to maintain your new weight. you *will* eventually need to eat more, i'm sure, but why not ask your doctors & see what they say?

it's possible you may be one of the few who actually have medical reasons for being predisposed to weight gain, but most people aren't, even if they want to believe they are. most people easily overestimate how much exercise they get, and greatly under-estimate how many calories they eat in a day. i've been using a site called FitDay.com to keep track of mine, and i was pretty surprised at how many calories i used to eat, compared to how little food i had - i was eating all the wrong things, obviously, but i digress...

meh, i gotta run - i'll be back!

Good lilnk.. thanks! And yes, they are upping my calories when I reach "maintenance" stage of course. They did say it'll probably only be around 1600 though considering how low they had to get me before I started losing at all. (It was a gradual decline too)

[Ash Sangre]

Well. I have lost like 16 pounds in almost 2 weeks. Alot of it was Water weight. TA was right about that. but i lose quickly because I do the Diabetic Diet, and mainly my sugar stays high alot so it makes you constantly throw up, and you drop weight like crazy, it is unhealthy, and i hope things settle down. I am going to see a nutritionist about exactly what kind of calorie intake i should do going by my BMI. So yay for me. I feel good losing though, makes me smile alot more. Tee hee. Thanks for the encouragment and chatting tho ppl. and good luck to all of those who need it. Muah

Ash

[Reaper]

I'll be honest. Regular sex has been the key to my weight loss since October. It's a fantastic form of exercise.

Damn! No wonder I am gaining weight!

On a side note, I used to be skinny/scrawny. After high school I started weightlifting with heavy weights quite a lot for about 5 years. It certainly bulked my body up. But after a couple of years of stopping it, all the muscle became more like fat. Then when truck driving came into play it became worse, gaining about another 40 pounds. I thought I could lose a lot more of it once I was able to get back into exercising. But my job is exhausting and by the time I get home, I usually lay on the couch and fall asleep. Even the hydroxy cut stops helping out. I just don't get myself to diet much and drink more water. I think until I change that and do more crunches and jogging or walking, I will not lose this belly I have built upon myself. That or get sex more regularly lol.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Damn! No wonder I am gaining weight!

On a side note, I used to be skinny/scrawny. After high school I started weightlifting with heavy weights quite a lot for about 5 years. It certainly bulked my body up. But after a couple of years of stopping it, all the muscle became more like fat. Then when truck driving came into play it became worse, gaining about another 40 pounds. I thought I could lose a lot more of it once I was able to get back into exercising. But my job is exhausting and by the time I get home, I usually lay on the couch and fall asleep. Even the hydroxy cut stops helping out. I just don't get myself to diet much and drink more water. I think until I change that and do more crunches and jogging or walking, I will not lose this belly I have built upon myself. That or get sex more regularly lol.

Probably driving in the truck makes it especially difficult because i know when i drive for a long time , and i know i have more driving to do... i defentley want some real food, not some bird seed crap mini-man meal. Not sure why that is, just a thing that i noticed. Maybe the monotony of the driving tells my brain "damn it, i need some reward for all this god damn driving!!"

[know_buddy_kares]

I used to be a truck driver in the marines, and it's horrible on keeping the gut down cuz as you're sitting there driving, you're really not using your abdomen muscles at all. However personally for me, I'd run/jog 3 miles every other day, and as long as I kept my posture right and held my abdomen muscles in place while running, It nullified the gut greatly. Running doesn't build bigger muscles, but it toned the ones i had greatly. For stanima, I used swimming. Swimming doesn't work on the abdomen that much, but keeps your stanima up for those really grueling long days. But it seems you know how to bulk up reaper. Running tires the shit out of you at first, but if you can hang in there it actually gives you more genuine long lasting energy in order to keep up.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

That confuses me, i thought the gut problem is due to fat on the gut, not some big giant untoned gut muscle. Firming up muscles , under fat, basically gives you a bigger gut. no?