Ufos ?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Do you believe in the traditional concept of UFOs ? That is, that aliens have visited us in spaceships and such? Do you actually have specific information about it or is it just sort of a gut feeling in one direction or another?

I have a hard time with "ok here is this difficult to explain happening... must be aliens." The idea of seeing "a shape in the sky" does seem fairly interesting to me.

The ones were they actually say they've seen >the aliens

Lots of things on TV/Net documenting supposed actual UFO sightings. I've yet to see any peer-reviewed scientific journals take any of it seriously. Is this an agenda on the part of scientists to ignore it? I have a hard time with that. Many scientists >want

If it was "real" i'd think these things would be in the media 24/7. Aliens visiting from outside the earth is a much bigger story than who shot JR isnt it? That would be one of the ulitmate scoops that there ever was "aliens confirmed" no?

[phee]

Do you believe in the traditional concept of UFOs ? That is, that aliens have visited us in spaceships and such? Do you actually have specific information about it or is it just sort of a gut feeling in one direction or another?

I have a hard time with "ok here is this difficult to explain happening... must be aliens." The idea of seeing "a shape in the sky" does seem fairly interesting to me.

The ones were they actually say they've seen >the aliens

Lots of things on TV/Net documenting supposed actual UFO sightings. I've yet to see any peer-reviewed scientific journals take any of it seriously. Is this an agenda on the part of scientists to ignore it? I have a hard time with that. Many scientists >want

If it was "real" i'd think these things would be in the media 24/7. Aliens visiting from outside the earth is a much bigger story than who shot JR isnt it? That would be one of the ulitmate scoops that there ever was "aliens confirmed" no?

I have ideas... but this falls into my agnostacism for the moment... I don't have enough consistant or reliable info

[BrassFusion]

I'm kinda on the Phee phront with this one. I'd love to believe there are aliens, but there's not enough evidence to say we probably have been visited. I'll look for mundane explanations until they all fail.

[Homicidalheathen]

I don't know. I saw something once, either the Air force has some really awesome powerful silent things that do just amazing things and are huge or.......

Then there was one special that seemed pretty convincing....

German soldiers walking around a craft....

Hard to fake the authenticity of it....the trucks, uniforms.....ect....

Then there is the story of the guys who were abducted together, went under hypnosis and all had the same story.....

I have heard something from someone I really trust and admire, she saw something...

But again just a craft of somekind, could be ours or......the Japanese???

Personally I don't think anything or one could come that far without dying first or something.....

Or that anything or one would want to.

But it makes for good campfire stories.

[Steven]

I think that the ancient artififacts, structures, legends, and such athat point toward a possible influence of outer space aliens on this planet are actually the handiwork of the Nephilim.

and that in modern times we have much more advanced technology than the public is aware of. Stealth technology for example, when it started, was light years ahead of the common technology or even conception, yet it was secretely created and tested for years. Who knows whats "really" being created and tested now. We've also in years past created and tested sonic weapons using soundwaves that were incrediby powerful and destructive to both human tissue and physical structures, but it was a difficult thing to control and/or produce en masse and so it was secretely created and secretly placed on teh backburner. But who knows where it really stands today?

Edited September 9, 2006 by Steven

[phee]

The argument that so many people have seen them that it must be true never holds too much wieght for me.... If you look at Salem Massachusits during the witch craze, soooo many people claimed that they saw witches flying on broomsticks....

[Vater Araignee]

Define alien.

The noun doesn't work for us so we go with the adjective.

Main Entry: alien

Pronunciation: 'A-lE-&n, 'Al-y&n

Function: adjective

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin alienus, from alius

1 a : belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : STRANGE b : relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : FOREIGN c : EXOTIC 1

2 : differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility

We go with #2 but if the alien hybrid theory is true that strikes down the fact that they are alien.

Statistically alien do exist but in the same breath they are not visiting us because in theory it is easier to, say travel in time or inter-dimensionally in ones own lifetime then it is to traverse the distances required visit an other planet let alone find a populated one. So those extraterrestrials are not coming here.

This conclusion of mine does not mean that we are not being visited by something alien to us. If I where to go into the past or to an alternate Earth that had a much lower technology, how alien would I seem to that populace? Very! However I give the probability of this scenario about the same as somebody calculating pi in my lifetime.

The highest probability is a combination of three factors:

• Natural phenomenon. I'm not just talking about Venus reflecting off of a lake and casting back onto a cloud. In theory the space time continuum can ripple letting an on looker see other places but what that individual is seeing is not here, it is there.
• Normal and High Technology.

  Normal. Do you think you have seen every publicly known aircraft under every possible viewing condition?

  High. uBgLhAhChKeOmPmSm

• Hoaxing. I know about this first hand considering I am a member of T.O.P.H.O.A.X. ( The Organization Perpetrating Hoaxed Objectionable Aerial Xenophenomenon)

Now somebody is saying "Cattle Mutilation, that is proof"

Well if you take a look at every case reported it breaks down into two categories.

#1. True mutilation. This is caused by animals and malicious humans.

#2. Surgical Mutilation. By it's very nature it is not mutilation at all.

I'll give you a partial list of what is being removed. Eyes, tongue, respiratory tissue, stomach, and anus. Lets look at what these things have in common. Radiation! Either they are extremely susceptible to it or radioactive particulates will collect in them. Now if you start plotting the surgical mutilations on a map and put a overlay of all publicly known radiation sources and fallout zones you will see that over 90% of these cases are in or near these zones leading to the conclusion that it is our government secretly examining our food supply. Why would they do it in secret? To prevent wide spread panic of the moronic masses.

You don't mind eating irradiated beef because it is safer but do you ant to eat some with uranium-235 even if it is safe?

Back to UFO's.

Are they real?

If you can't identify it then for you it is truly an Unidentified Flying Object.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Probability says there is life some where else in the Universe. The Laws of Physics and many of the Theorys say there is no fucking way they came here. Perhaps if there is a stabel worm hole somewhere near our Solar system... or they have a Black hole somewhere near theirs...

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Theres nothing nessisarily "probable" about life occurring. This is actually one of the things that intelligent desgin advocates point to as something that leans in favor of creation. That is, that many scientists are NOT sure that life is common and indeed some feel that its a very uncommon occurance. (therefore , its argued it must have been created specificly at a specific time and put there by a specific creator... not just "occured") Not saying i agree with that, just its one fairly commonly held viewpoint.

Its true that it can be ARGUED that life is probable. But you have to (yes i've done my homework) make a lot of assumptions which is more based on feeling than fact to come up with a full conclusion. Theres a wide breadth of cosmology that covers this subject, rarely doe any creditable scientists say that they "know for sure" that its "probable"... they have to make certian guesses about what makes up 99% of the universe (dark matter) to make any prediction about what is probable.

There is a lot of interesting work on dark matter, some that leads to the idea that life on many worlds is probable but its by no means a given. Its only our small view of localized reality that gives us this "feeling" that there must be endless varieties of life out there or that its unlikely. It takes a lot more data than we can accumuliate walking around on earth to make such a claim one way or the other.

Anyhow, my point there was more do you (the reader) really believe that Aliens (and i'm assuming we all have the standard definition of "an intelligence not human from another world(s))" have been here.

Have they actually been here actually seen etc. (addressing vater more than anyone with this last statement)

Oh and what Steven brings up is interesting. i'm no longer convinced of any "advanced" artifacts inability to be made by standard human (albeit often amazing) technology of the time. The pyramids for example , having done my homework on that in particular, are very convincingly human in origin after much ... er digging. Same for stonehenge and most any other mega/monolithic structures i've studied. (again i really have done my homework on the subject, not saying i know for sure.. but i tend to be pretty convinced they are human in origin)

I used to be actually of a similar opinion "there is a lot of really advanced artifacts out there.. difficult to say they where made by humans... im guessing it wasn't aliens.. it was angels". I did up until maybe the last 5-8 years tend toward this idea which i've slowly after doing a lot of research veered away from.

It (angels/their progeny are the perceived "aliens" idea) is a fairly logical conclusion if you make assumptions as I (and many) did/do mans Abilities were only X at the time, humanity is probably the only intelligent race (at least that has been on earth), and that the christian view of the universe is acurate. "The angels or their progeny" is , assuming all of the above a possible answer. One that i held for quite awhile. I was raised in a fairly fundamentalist christian way and such ideas are not so "far out" in this context than some might think at first glance.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Oh and what Steven brings up is interesting. i'm no longer convinced of any "advanced" artifacts inability to be made by standard human (albeit often amazing) technology of the time. The pyramids for example , having done my homework on that in particular, are very convincingly human in origin after much ... er digging. Same for stonehenge and most any other mega/monolithic structures i've studied. (again i really have done my homework on the subject, not saying i know for sure.. but i tend to be pretty convinced they are human in origin)

I have never once doubted in my life that ancient human artifacts were, in fact, human. Ancient people were ancient, not morons. The closest star is 4.2 light years away (and I'm not even sure if scientists think it has any planets around it). Would you travel 4.2 light years to take some cow anuses? I hope not. Aliens are ancient, not morons.

[Steven]

other things lead me toward that fallen Angel progeny conclusion as well.....

stories of flesh eating giants on every continent.

including here in Michigan (and all across the united states really) - burial mounds not rooted to indigenous native peoples, containing artiifacts, runes, tools, and giant skeletons, some having double rows of teeth and/or extra fingers or toes.

Native american (Sioux Nation) tales of the banding togethor of waring tribes in order to eradicate "giants" who were nomadic and cannablistic.

biblical referances both old and new testament. Archeological evidences showing giants in certain artifacts. Word searchign the appropriate hebrew translations....for example the text concernign Noah being chosen to survive the flood does NOT translate that he was more righteous than his fellow man and thus was chosen to be spared. The text actually literally translates to the fact that his bloodline was "pure". I have assumed (i know, I know) this means his DNA was not tainted with Nephilim influence. And the existence of the Nephilim would be a perfect vehicle to spoil the foretold coming of the Messiah thru the lineage of David if that bloodline was tainted.

let's see.....there are other ancient writings describing the Nehilim, or Zamzumin, or sons of ANak, or whatever they were called by whomever....

greek mythology. I simply think there is much more to it than meets the imagination.

ancient paintings and drawings from around the world. Including pictures of people with horns.

it might seem like a stretch, but to me there is remarkable consistency.

but see that leads to all kinds of other Oprahs too in my world, such as beleiving that there is STILL a war going on in heaven, and that there is much war within the fallen angel camp as well.....

Edited September 10, 2006 by Steven

[BrassFusion]

Sorry to backjack, but in regards to probability of life occurring... they found evidence of bacteria on Mars, correct? That's (at least) two hits in one solar system, independent from one another.

[Vater Araignee]

Sorry to backjack, but in regards to probability of life occurring... they found evidence of bacteria on Mars, correct? That's (at least) two hits in one solar system, independent from one another.

Incorrect

U P D A T E

15 DEC 1998. Further evidence that the Mars meteorite has no signs of life came from a NASA meeting held Nov. 2 to 4. "The case has weakened dramatically," meteor scientist Horton Newsome told Science magazine. After two years spent examining the 2-kilogram rock by numerous researchers, he added, "a number of lines of evidence have gone away."

The presence of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, for example, could easily represent a chemical found on early Mars, not life. The small, round objects that the NASA scientists originally thought were fossils of tiny bacteria could not represent life as we know it, because bacteria cannot get that small. And the oddly shaped molecules dubbed "worms" look like many structures built by entirely inorganic processes. Although the scientists who originally announced signs of life in the meteorite have not entirely retracted their claims, the notion is becoming more difficult to accept.

I wish that ALH84001 did contain evidence but unfortunately it only contains the sensationalism of scientists not fully doing their research.

If you think about it though, considering bacteria does not have the requirements that higher life forms do and you look at the fact that magnetite was created by a rock eating bacteria then it becomes cool to think that every time you see a meteorite entering our atmosphere, you may be seeing an entry vehicle for an extraterrestrial life form.

[Hellion]

:devil UFO,Unidentified Farting Orgasm,LOL(sorry about the threadjack.Other than that I have seen photo's of strange objects in the sky,still have my doubts,and thoeries.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I have never once doubted in my life that ancient human artifacts were, in fact, human. Ancient people were ancient, not morons. The closest star is 4.2 light years away (and I'm not even sure if scientists think it has any planets around it). Would you travel 4.2 light years to take some cow anuses? I hope not. Aliens are ancient, not morons.

Thats assuming we know what "they" (whatever we decide that means) came here for nor is it nessisarly likely we could interpret their actions with our laymans view of things. If they are so advanced, it wouldn't nessisarly follow that we could figure out what they were doing with their various events. Beings that are "so advanced" probably would have many actions that would make little or no sense to us.

Who says they are ancient? Just as one example of how we cant really know such things: How do we have a clue how long tech takes to evolve on a totally alien world? How do we know what they would want? How do we even know we have the ablity to tell what they would want?

Its a mistake to assume we'd know what they are here for, and then another guess about what these events mean (well there was something to do with cows and i know exactly what that means for example) , and THEN after making two huge assumptions guessing "well because i know what they are here for... it follows that they haven't been here since i know what the point of these various events is".

We could easily have no basis to understand what their actions mean. If we assume they are so advanced, they could have access to things we dont have the slightest clue about nor how they would appear.

Sorry to backjack, but in regards to probability of life occurring... they found evidence of bacteria on Mars, correct? That's (at least) two hits in one solar system, independent from one another.

No thats not really jacking , our view of life existing elsewere would be directly related one way or another to the existance of "real" ufo sightings. =)

Unless you have some info i dont have, wow... that would be probably the blockbuster discovery of the millenium. No they have not found life anywhere else but earth. They've not even verified true-blue earth-style liquid water anywhere yet. True earth-style liquid water is believed to have once existed in several locations and there is near-earth style water in at least 2 places that i know of. (liquid water is believed to bea bare minimum requirement for any type of life in virtually every model) But not even a microbe found anywhere as yet. Damn that would be sweet if they had.

But even if they did find life on mars its not nessisarly "independant" of life on earth. They could be related. (many ideas could be thrown in here)

All the cosmology (that is the scientific study of the nature of the universe) that i know about has to make huge guesses to come up with what is "probable" and they always state is as such once you read into it far enough. We have found life no where else, we dont know what 99.9X% of the universe is even made of (becasue the vast majority of it does not reflect electromagnetic waves and is thus "dark". (Light, radio, etc)

So only having one planetary example of life, and missing the vast majorty of data on what the rest of the universe is made of, makes it exceedingly difficult to make any definitive guesses about life elsewhere.

Its a clear logic error , even if there were 2 planets with life on them to say. "Well its in two places... it must be common in the cosmos" (but again its only on one)

True, i think the general "hunch" is that there is life elsewhere but again its by no means a foregone conclusion. Its unrealistic to make guesses about the nature of the universe from a laymans perspective since "the verse" does not resemble our everyday experience. What we see around here locally in our everyday experience on the planet is virtually useless as a means to make any predictions about life off-world.

With Brane/M theory (modern terms for string theory) thrown in, the only things that seem "probable" are black holes, all the universe models predict them nowadays, no other single "mystery" is predicted by so many models. Often life does not occur at all, or is considered unlikely and/or rare. Despite the size of the universe , there is generally considered to be a nearly as vast set of circumstances that are required for life .. especially intelligent life. The universe is not infinite, and thus there is not an "infinite" number of chances for life to exist.

I LIKE the idea of intelligent life , but theres no data to "prove" its "likely". There is plenty of disagreement about that by people that study such things for a living. Carl Sagan/Jodie Fosters "well it would be an aweful waste of space" not withstanding. "Well its rilly big must be more life out there" is a total guess.

I dont really think its a threadjack to discuss that though. Your hunch on if life exists or not... would totally negate UFOs if the answer was "no theres no life out there".

Funny how a couple hundred years can make a big difference in popular opinion. At one time it was widely assumed that earth was the only place with intelligent (finite) life. Nowadays i think the general guess is that there is life out there somewhere.

Neither is a decent argument though, just because X number of people believe something doesn't make it any more true or untrue.

Having said all that long winded crap i do think it still comes down to a guess. But a much more difficult guess than some would assume. I think we like to file stuff away as "answered" and are too quick to decide that we know the final answer.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Its a mistake to assume we'd know what they are here for, and then another guess about what these events mean (well there was something to do with cows and i know exactly what that means for example) , and THEN after making two huge assumptions guessing "well because i know what they are here for... it follows that they haven't been here since i know what the point of these various events is".

All I know, is that if you travel light years just to get some cow anusues, you come from a very, very messed up place. :grin

[BrassFusion]

All I know, is that if you travel light years just to get some cow anusues, you come from a very, very messed up place. :grin

(like japan)

[creatureofthenyte]

I think about this subject and stories about crop circles found on farm lands comes to mind.

How they just mysteriously appeared.

That's about as alien as I get.

I dont know if there really is any truth to the other stories out there.

More likely, the only aliens anyone will find on earth will be found at the borders in arizona, new mexico, and south texas.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Troy,

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/09/c...adus/index.html

Water.. not on earth. We also have found water ice on a few moons. Europa looks to be a ball of water with an ice shell.

And um, when i say Probability.. I mean the cold hard number crunching kind of probability. Life elsewhere in the Universe has a high probability but an unknown possibility.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I don't know about aliens visiting earth....maybe in the past? I don't know....

seems impossible...as it is difficult enough for US to even get out of our own solar system...

But, I suppose anything is possible.....

With the vasteness of the universe, and the billions and billions of galaxies harboring stars much like our own sun out there, it would be difficult to believe that there isn't anything else out there.

What? I don't know....maybe microbes, and odd plants? Odd Life forms maybe? Even spohisticated societies.....

God has a lot of projects out there,......none of which are any of MY business....which I think is why it is so difficult to get there.... ??

[Homicidalheathen]

I was laying on my back with my ex boyfriend on a mountain top just outside of Pheonix late one night. This thing, I don't know what the hell it was......just came out of no where, I mean, one second it wasn't there.....then it was, then it was gone. It was just like this huge white light came str8 down from the sky, right over us....then there was this huge flash of light like a flash bulb going off, almost blinded us. Then it took off as fast as it came and it made a complete 90 angle turn over us and was gone in like one second. NO SOUND came out of it at all. And it was huge.

So we go back down a bit shaken and almost didn't mention it to our friends but they could tell something was wrong. So we mentioned it and as soon as it came out of our mouths everyone was like, 'oh yah, people see ufo's in Pheonix all the time' like it was the most normal thing.

At first I thought maybe it was extratorestrial.....but I talked to an old air force guy and he said they have been working on and developing things for years we don't know about.....thats why a hammer costs 25 60 bucks ect.....for the arm and whatnot....where does all the extra money go? Secret weapons. Also, there are a bunch of weird buildings built into mountains out there with high wire fences and Government signs on them that warn you if you try to enter you will be shot pretty much. I mean, they have some certain type of wording that doesn't say exactly that but you get the point and stay away.

Oh and once in awhile you will see trucks with no marking driving up to them and they are the same color as the sand......so you won't see them from the sky.

Then this old lady I know who is quite sane, down to earth and very responsible saw a circle shaped craft that did some amazing things too and was huge, hovering over a field. Scared the crap out of her.

Still, I think they are man made....I didn't at first, but I do now.

[phee]

Do I believe in UFO's? Yes... there are definitly things in the sky that I/we cannot identify... Aliens? well, as Kelly stated, the Universe has far too much unknown about it to make a judgement about cosmic aliens... I have always left open the possibility of (agnostic kicks in) things here on earth that we cannot grasp, the spiritual, other dimentions, time travel, the supernatural, mental illness, the results of "self medicating", collective subconscience, advanced beings here on earth living parallel with humans, other humans, and yes... space aliens as well... as with most things of this nature... not enough information.

Edited September 18, 2006 by phee

[sass_in_the_pants]

(like japan)

Exactly.