An open letter

[Fierce Critter]

Some shit went down this weekend - with more than one person - that has brought me to the point that I have to say something.

This is just as the title suggests - an open letter. It's not addressed to any one person. It may include DGNers and/or non-DGNers. It does involve City Club patrons. So this forum on this message board is where I'm choosing to say this. View it as addressed to you, or view it as a simple rant of a person who is fed-up and needs simply to spew. Whatever floats yer boat. Here goes.

Jon and I are very happy. Very committed to each other. Every relationship, including marriage, has its ups, downs, trials, tribulations. We both know "right and wrong" when it comes to our marriage. We're doing just fine, thank you.

We also have a very - VERY - strong policy of honesty between us. Something that follows into our communications between each other.

We are NOT stupid.

Nor am I blind.

I am respectfully requesting that you please show us - both as individuals and as a committed, married couple - the respect of behaving appropriately around us. If not by your standards, by ours.

The excuse of "It's the atmosphere - it's to be expected" or "I drink a little too much and don't/can't control myself" is not going to fly with us. I don't give a fuck what the atmosphere is or my own alcohol intake. When I go to a club, I don't allow myself to behave in a way I know will directly hurt or disrespect someone - even if given the opportunity. I know when to say no - either to my own urges, or the temptations of someone else.

A mature adult should be able to maintain some modicum of propriety around those they claim to like and respect.

Jon and I are aware of and respect the right of people to choose any manner of relationship/sex life which suits them. We are non-judgemental - so long as you also respect us and our choices as well.

Behave in any manner that suits you. Just grow up a little and maybe realize you can't expect everybody to enjoy your behavior. That things you might see as o.k. aren't o.k. when you try to include someone you know doesn't walk the same path as you. Wise-up and don't blow off your own lack of control as everyone else needs to "just deal with it" when you lapse in judgment & respect. That's a cowardly, childish cop-out. OWN it.

Otherwise, we may just have to stop associating with other people when at City Club. And that would be a damned shame, considering how much we like associating with just about every person there - including possible guilty parties.

And don't try to turn that into another cop-out, "They're not strong enough in their marriage to be able to deal with temptation." Temptations and challenges are everywhere. Our marriage is strong enough that we can look at something someone else is doing - and choose, if need be, to remove ourselves from something we don't care to be associated with. "If they won't govern their behavior, we'll govern the way we deal with it." Simple as that.

Don't act tacky and then get defensive when someone calls you on it. Again, OWN it.

The number of incidents and the number of people guilty of this kind of crap is increasing. Don't PM/IM/e-mail and ask us, "who are you talking about specifically". We're not getting involved in any of that kind of BS. Because as much as certain persons have chosen to disrespect me and Jon, we won't stoop to that level.

It's just getting really old, and we're tired of dealing with it. Up until now, we have been, as tactfully as possible in the face of utter tactlessness. But we have our limits.

And next time I may not be this nice and anonymous about it.

[nodrew]

Oh geez, I really am sorry about that, I was a little drunk and Jon decided to make a pass at me. Really, in any other circumstances I would have backed off and said, "dude, I'm not gay. That's kewl if you are, but leave me out of it." Instead I was trashed and said "why not?"

So sorry about that. I should have never allowed him to make a successful pass at me.

[Fierce Critter]

Actually, I believe we're referring to different incidents.

You really were trashed, weren't you? I saw the whole thing go down.

That wasn't Jon. That was your mama.

[nodrew]

No trust me, it was Jon. I had to have a paternity test done when I ended up pregnant. Luckily I had stolen his wallet while we we're making out, else I wouldn't have been able to pay for it.

[Fierce Critter]

Now I know it wasn't Jon.

There'd never be enough $$ in his wallet to pay for a paternity test.

[nodrew]

No trust me. It was all of the 1 dollar bills he carries around with him just in case he gets attacked with "stripper fever." We both know he carries a hefty sum with him just in case he's fiending. You really should get help for him, first he's spending all of his money on strippers, then molesting unsuspecting young men.

What's next ?

What IS next !?!?

[Fierce Critter]

You poor, deluded man.

This is the best I can do for you. Please seek help while you still can.

[Brenda Starrr]

Go get 'em, Critter.

Some people have a lot of nerve.

[nodrew]

Speaking of nerve:

Why do you have to wrap duct tape around a gerbil?

So that it doesn't explode when you sodomize it.

[soothsayer]

The excuse of "It's the atmosphere - it's to be expected" or "I drink a little too much and don't/can't control myself" is not going to fly with us. I don't give a fuck what the atmosphere is or my own alcohol intake.

I agree 100% FC -- too many people today use this excuse to act in a manner that violates others moral space while in public.

A mature adult should be able to maintain some modicum of propriety around those they claim to like and respect.

You are absolultely correct here.

Behave in any manner that suits you. Just grow up a little and maybe realize you can't expect everybody to enjoy your behavior. That things you might see as o.k. aren't o.k. when you try to include someone you know doesn't walk the same path as you. Wise-up and don't blow off your own lack of control as everyone else needs to "just deal with it" when you lapse in judgment & respect. That's a cowardly, childish cop-out. OWN it.

Definetley.

I applaud you for taking a stand FC -- I myself tried taking a stand against these same issues and because of it had a relationship go sour. I hope this helps your situation at CC get better.

[Blackmail]

There are 5 or 6 of us DGNers who don't like the stuff that goes on the DGN corner, it never used to be as bad as it is now.

Most of the "sexual predators" in the DGN corner are women. And many times the "prey" are other women.

it seems that bisexual girls in the goth scene think all girls at city club are also bi. So I got real sick of a couple of a particular female hitting on my girlfriend. Many of the city club bi-girls think it is not cheating if they hit on a girl who is attached. My GF claimed once told me she is "not really sexually interested in women" but nonetheless the girl who hits on her is. She has even put her hands on my gf and told her she wanted to

corrupt her.

So I don't know if the people who are in monogamous, happy relationships really belong in that corner anymore. I've had my ass grabbed several times - uninvited. Maybe the DGN corner should renamed to "the dgn corner for those who want to fool around with eachother" so people who just want to causually hang and talk can do so elsewhere.

Anyway FC, I'm just saying I relate to your situation.

[Onyx]

I haven't been since NYE, but I must have been in the wrong corner all this time. :laughing

Sorry to hear about this though. If nothing else, it's so rude to just go up and put your hands on someone, male or female, bisexual or not.

Even if you are bisexual (which I am not), it's really strange that someone would assume you wanted to be touched by any random person who happens along.

Perhaps this discussion will make a few aware that not everyone has an open invitation for sexual contact. It's quite possible things could turn really ugly with uninvited touching mixed with alcohol.

[Brenda Starrr]

Speaking of nerve:

Why do you have to wrap duct tape around a gerbil?

So that it doesn't explode when you sodomize it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EEEEEEWWW!

That was funny. Sorry to derail.

Back to the topic.

[Shade Everdark]

There are 5 or 6 of us DGNers who don't like the stuff that goes on the DGN corner, it never used to be as bad as it is now.   

Most of the "sexual predators" in the DGN corner are women.  And many times the "prey" are other women. 

it seems that bisexual girls in the goth scene think all girls at city club are also bi.  So I got real sick of a couple of a particular female hitting on my girlfriend.  Many of the city club bi-girls think it is not cheating if they hit on a girl who is attached.    My GF claimed once told me she is "not really sexually interested in women" but nonetheless the girl who hits on her is.    She has even put her hands on my gf and told her she wanted to

corrupt her.   

So I don't know if the people who are in monogamous, happy relationships really belong in that corner anymore.    I've had my ass grabbed several times - uninvited.  Maybe the DGN corner should renamed to "the dgn corner for those who want to fool around with eachother" so people who just want to causually hang and talk can do so elsewhere.   

Anyway FC, I'm just saying I relate to your situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now, I must preface by saying that I certainly don't disbelieve you or FC, and that my title as Captain Oblivious is well-deserved. However, I can say, with one exception, that I've not really noticed this sort of thing in the DGn corner, the little that I've been there in the past several weeks. I can say with unequivocal certainty that I have never had my own bum--or other body parts, for that matter--grabbed. I'd be interested to see how many others this has happened to, as a statistical endeavor. Hm, I must have some kind of aura...seriously.

And I don't mean the BO.

[LuluVox]

I think there was a "have you had your butt grabbed at CC" poll once. And I among a good number of others had to answer "yes."

[Fierce Critter]

Not everything that I've witnessed, experienced or heard of involves physical touch.

A fair amount of inappropriate innuendo & solicitation has gone on, too. This has not only shocked and angered both of us, but also seriously disappointed us. Especially considering how respectful we try to be of people's life choices.

In the past, we've viewed things like tush pinches and some risque commentary as flattering. But some people are carrying it to far - taking advantage of two of the most vocal advocates of "live and let live".

I find this whole situation so, so sad. When I posted initially, I was mostly angry. But I'm feeling a decent amount of disappointment, too. =(

[The_Dark]

I'll just take a mental note to not flirt with FC if I ever et to City Club again...

[soothsayer]

Most of the "sexual predators" in the DGN corner are women.  And many times the "prey" are other women. 

it seems that bisexual girls in the goth scene think all girls at city club are also bi.  So I got real sick of a couple of a particular female hitting on my girlfriend.  Many of the city club bi-girls think it is not cheating if they hit on a girl who is attached.    My GF claimed once told me she is "not really sexually interested in women" but nonetheless the girl who hits on her is.    She has even put her hands on my gf and told her she wanted to

corrupt her.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is true as well, it happened to the 'former' I was dating. Only problem was that the 'former' wanted this to happen to her regerdless that she was dating me. And it did come from other dgn women. And for the record -- there is no other side of the story on this one. She should have owned up to her poor behavior instead of telling me to deal with it.

Send your hate mail to my inbox thank you much.

[Fierce Critter]

I'll just take a mental note to not flirt with FC if I ever et to City Club again...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

!) I doubt you'd ever have the urge to flirt with me.

2) I believe strongly you wouldn't disrespect your wife by taking things too far.

3) I'm not talking about harmless flirting. I'm talking outright solicitation for sex, and expressions of disappointment that one or the other of us is married.

Among other things.

[The_Dark]

Darlin, I flirt with everyone... it's who I am. (and yes, in real life, I call girls I like Darlin.)

[Saephyr]

I never touched you FC! (Ok I did but I meant it to be a good touch not a bad touch). =(

[DarkChylde]

Seems I always get hit on if only im in a relationship, but if im single then I dont get hit on.

People, dont ya think it be alot easier and much much less complicated to hit on those that are single?

[Marblez]

This is true as well, it happened to the 'former' I was dating. Only problem was that the 'former' wanted this to happen to her regerdless that she was dating me. And it did come from other dgn women. And for the record -- there is no other side of the story on this one. She should have owned up to her poor behavior instead of telling me to deal with it.

Send your hate mail to my inbox thank you much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps the "former" has different ways of dealing with conflict? Some people aren't as interested in making public scenes by freaking out the moment someone touches them and will instead choose to deal with it on a more private level. This is true especially when the behavior had been known to be acceptable in the recent past.

[Fierce Critter]

I never touched you FC! (Ok I did but I meant it to be a good touch not a bad touch). =(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please note that others are focusing in on the so-called "DGN corner" - not I.

I never specified anything or anybody or anywhere.

CC on the whole has been called a meat-market as long as I can remember. I have just never experienced it directly until returning to the area this year.

So we'll just be saying hello, checking in with people, and going off by ourselves when we go there. Better that way probably - we can get more intimate with each other and dance more. =)

[Fierce Critter]

Darlin, I flirt with everyone... it's who I am. (and yes, in real life, I call girls I like Darlin.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Damn. Does this mean you're saying you like me? Jon will have to kick your ass. :laughing :woot:

Actually, the world will probably implode first, from the vacuum created by a conservative-leaning person such as yerself and a liberal-swinging person like me actually being able to get along. :blink :cheerful