Michael Moore's Letter

[phee]

not wholy true... Kerry sacred me into voting Bush.

[Fierce Critter]

But the President started by scaring people into being elected, and the people gave him their power once again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which was exactly the point stressed by Moore in "Bowling for Columbine" - how U.S. citizens are being "feared" into submission. And I agree wholeheartedly.

I think Michael Moore did good with "Roger & Me", "The Big One" and "Bowling for Columbine". But, I with F9/11, he at first galvanized, then pissed me off.

He pisses me off 'cause he could be such a strong voice for things/views I believe in. But then I find out about the inaccuracies he pushes or information he conveniently leaves out and he makes HIMSELF invalid 'cause he can't be trusted.

If I could talk directly to him, I'd tell him what a good job he does overall. But I'd beseech him to play things more straight so there wouldn't be so much good & valid ammunition AGAINST him, weakening his messages.

[the eternal]

For the record, Michael Moore hired a team of fact checkers to make sure that there were no factual errors in F 9/11.

If there were, he could (and would've) been sued by a whole host of sources, such as the Bush administration.

Did he leave out the sunny parts of going to war. Sure. Just like the media doesnt usually talk up the schools we're building in Fallujah, since it doesnt make for an interesting story.

Does that make the media liberal? No. It makes them capitalist. And CNN MSNBC and all the others sure wore the flag (literally) on their lapels in the lead up to a war that most of the country now is against.

Michael Moore IS a liberal. It's not his job to show both sides for an even jusdgement. It's his job as a whistleblower to show what's wrong and try to fix it.

There are plenty of people on the other side to make attacks back.

So many of you charge that he is full of lies, etc, etc.

But where are you getting YOUR information from? There are A LOT of people who it is in their best interest to make a laughingstock out of MM, because what he says threatens them.

The Nixon admin. laughed at and then slandered Woodward and Bernstein.

Their tactics WERE unorthodox. They wasted NO time showing the virtues of Nixon.

They felt we were being deceived, and in the end, they brought down a president.

The media has changed.

Its no longer very interested in investigative reporting. (Bloggers broke the Dan Rather story--how sad is that??)

Moore was upset about the Iraq war and felt we were being deceived, so he investigated and made a movie about it.

After Bowling for Columbine, the NRA was DYING to sue him. But they couldnt.

Because what he said was factually sound.

Could any of you tell me about the lawsuit filed and won in relation to F9/11???

Yeah, I thought so.

[Black Sunday9]

I guess his "fact" checkers missed this http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5575561/ and did you read the 59 deceits link I gave? There were factual errors in the movie and he worded them so cleverly to get around that fact, that is why he wasn't sued....except that well, he was sued.

Go rent Farenhype 911 for more evidence.

For the record, Michael Moore hired a team of fact checkers to make sure that there were no factual errors in F 9/11. 

If there were, he could (and would've) been sued by a whole host of sources, such as the Bush administration. 

Did he leave out the sunny parts of going to war.  Sure.  Just like the media doesnt usually talk up the schools we're building in Fallujah, since it doesnt make for an interesting story.

Does that make the media liberal? No.  It makes them capitalist.  And CNN MSNBC and all the others sure wore the flag (literally) on their lapels in the lead up to a war that most of the country now is against. 

Michael Moore IS a liberal.  It's not his job to show both sides for an even jusdgement.  It's his job as a whistleblower to show what's wrong and try to fix it.

There are plenty of people on the other side to make attacks back. 

So many of you charge that he is full of lies, etc, etc. 

But where are you getting YOUR information from?  There are A LOT of people who it is in their best interest to make a laughingstock out of MM, because what he says threatens them. 

The Nixon admin. laughed at and then slandered Woodward and Bernstein.

Their tactics WERE unorthodox. They wasted NO time showing the virtues of Nixon.

They felt we were being deceived, and in the end, they brought down a president.

The media has changed.

Its no longer very interested in investigative reporting.  (Bloggers broke the Dan Rather story--how sad is that??)

Moore was upset about the Iraq war and felt we were being deceived, so he investigated and made a movie about it. 

After Bowling for Columbine,  the NRA was DYING to sue him.  But they couldnt.

Because what he said was factually sound. 

Could any of you tell me about the lawsuit filed and won in relation to F9/11???

Yeah, I thought so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[the eternal]

I'll listen to anti-Bush talk, but not from Mr. "accurate", Michael Moore.    If Moore was "accurate" he wouldn't be staging scenes, doctoring headlines and fudging statistics, if he was a truth seeker he wouldn't have to do these things but he does.  The guy is a proven liar.  He is to the left what Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh are to the right.  The world would be better off without Moore and Limbaugh. 

BS9, I applaud that you are able to see that there are controversial figures on both sides of the fence.

That said, Ann Coulter and Limbaugh have told more lies in a day that MM has done in a lifetime.

Coulter in particular has said such outrageous lies that she's actually been FIRED for her freelance coverage of political events. Michael Moore hasn't.

Never mistake opinion for fact. He gives both. I think many of you hate the former and are uncomfortable with the latter, because of what it says about what goes on in this country.

It's funny.

After F9/11 there was a line of people waiting to discredit him.

One tirade he took apart, piece by piece, and showed how it was taking what he said out of context and how many of THEIR claims were misleading.

You just won't get that from Coulter and Limbaugh.

They DONT have the facts on their side, AND they don't need to defend themselves.

There truly is a double standard in this country for liberals and conservatives.

Pat Buchanan

Ollie North

Michael Millken

Newt Gingrich

All disgraced. All respected voices now (Millken in the financial world)

Pat Buchanan actually made comments sympathetic to Hitler

HITLER!!

And he's a go to guy for conservative views.

With all your ego this and self-centered that, you're failing to realize something

true about

BOTH

Moore AND Limbaugh

They're personally unattractive insecure guys who have strong beliefs and have found the best way to get their point across is through a larger than life persona.

The difference is how often Limbaugh blatantly lies.

POWER??

Well, the one power Moore COULD have had is helping Kerry win in 2004,

and lets face it, Kerry didnt do himself any favors with the way he ran his campaign.

A Kerry presidency.

What a crime that would've been, huh???

Bush has WAYYY more power than Moore could ever DREAM of.

[the eternal]

I guess his "fact" checkers missed this http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5575561/  and did you read the 59 deceits link I gave?    There were factual errors in the movie and he worded them so cleverly to get around that fact, that is why he wasn't sued....except that well, he was sued.

Go rent Farenhype 911 for more evidence.

So, who put together Farenhype 9/11???

This is exactly my point. There are A LOT of people threatened by Michael Moore.

They really sont want his main points to come out.

Does he highlight things in certain ways to elevate the mood???"

Absolutely!

As does any good polarizing figure.

Do they underline a truism.

Almost always, yes.

When all the votes were counted, under and over votes in Florida, Gore DID win the elerction.

And this is not EVEN including ALL the Jews that supposedly voted for Pat Buchanan in 2000.

Buchanan HIMSELF went on TV complaining about this.

This is not some sore loser whining. This IS fact.

And if you HONESTLY believe that holocaust survivors would vote for a Nazi sympathizer there's a ticket to Bablo Amusement park I'd like to sell you.

And he actually has responded to these charges as I stated earlier. Ill be honest I dont know if Im in the mood to scour his site archive for them, but it was there when they wetre first leveled.

[The_Dark]

A Kerry presidency.

What a crime that would've been, huh???

Him being president would not in and of itself been a crime. The things he would have done on the other hand would have been. He made public his plans and they scare the shit out of me. I don't want the UN to have full control of anything let alone our military.. which is exactly what he said he would have done. I think "we" should make decisions about our foreign policy, but under Kerry, all those decisions would have been defered to the UN... he siad as much.

[Black Sunday9]

I like how the eternal says that Moore does not lie, I proved that he did, and he attacks the people who proved he lied. He was also sued, despite what the eternal said. Face it, Moore lies. Read the links I provided.

As for the recount in Florida, and I have no idea why you are still talking about it, but not everyone agrees with you....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...floridamain.htm

Eternal, I think you yourself should get some fact checkers to help you. I lived in Miami during the 2000 election and many of the Rainbow Coalition and Michael Moore's charges were laughable.

That said, I do think Gore probably had more people who wanted him president in Florida in 2000, but they didn't punch the ballots correctly so what can you do?

[the eternal]

Dark-

Well if we HAD given the UN a little more control, maybe we woulkd have taken more time, found there were NO WMDS and 2000 Americans wouldnt be dead, and we wouldnt be in debt for the rest of civilization.

How are we going to clean up Katrina?

Taxes? No

Cutting baCK IN iRAQ? No

Lets just plunge deeper and deeper into debt, the george bush way!

I like how the eternal says that Moore does not lie, I proved that he did, and he attacks the people who proved he lied.  He was also sued, despite what the eternal said.  Face it, Moore lies.  Read the links I provided. 

As for the recount in Florida, and I have no idea why you are still talking about it, but not everyone agrees with you....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...floridamain.htm

Eternal, I think you yourself should get some fact checkers to help you.  I lived in Miami during the 2000 election and many of the Rainbow Coalition and Michael Moore's charges were laughable. 

That said, I do think Gore probably had more people who wanted him president in Florida in 2000, but they didn't punch the ballots correctly so what can you do?

Im not going to do a back and forth, since it will probably bore the crap out of people and I dont want this to become another thread like our last one.

Ill leave with this.

Their charges are not 100% accurate and thats all I was pointing out.

The people that are attempting to discredit Moore have just as much of an aganda as Moore himself.

Why am I still whining about 2000? Well first of all, you brought it up with your link to the lawsuit?

Secomdly, when the wrong man is put in charge of our country and screws it up the way he has, it tends to stick with you.

And there are a dozen articles that discredit your link.

Our elected president was Gore. That should be in the history books. It should not be forgotten or trivialized.

And the thing on DBT Choicepoint in your links has more holes than a piece of swiss cheese. Greg Palast did a fantastic expose on DBT and the FL voter rolls in Britain for the Guardian I believe.

It was reprinted in his fantastic book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy.

So, what can you do????

First, dont let the one who's in charge of the voter rolls be in charge of electing George Bush to the presidency in FL. That really should be illegal.

And guess what???

The same shit happened again, in OHIO!!!

Blackwell, was in charge of voting and also a huge Bush backer.

I was an organizer and pollwatcher, and on election day, got reports ALL day, that poor people were waiting in line for 6 or 7 hours, because of poor/insuffiicient voting machines while there were few problems in rich districts.

That is an outrage!!!!!

We need voter reform! ( And not the Bullshit bush passed a couple years back)

We need one uniform paper ballot like I had in IA where you fill in the middle of an arrow thats next to your candidate.

We need to have the same amount of working machines at every precinct.

We need to have the person in charge of voter rolls not be a campaigner for a political party

We need criminals who have fully paid their debt to society to have their voting rights restored (like it is in MI, but not FL and much of the south). If they've paid their debt and commited to be a contributing member of society, they deserve the right to vote.

AND

We need the moter voter law, like in MN, so people can register and vote the same day. (A lot of people simply dont know the registration laws, everyone that wants to vote should be given an opportunity to do so)

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!!

Why??

Because disproportionately rich people vote.

Why???

Bacause

A poor people feel like their vote doesnt matter, since things'll be crappy either way.

B because the voting laws are in wealthy people's favor

GOPers SAY they want everyone to vote, but let's face it, if we made the reasonable suggestions I made above, more people would be able to vote and its more likely a democrat would be elected.

But you know what, if a Dem WAS elected, because everyone voted, THAT would truly be a democracy. For a repub. to be elected under the present circumstances simply is not representative of our electorate.

[The_Dark]

Your saying it's only a Democracy if everyone votes the way you want them to?

[the eternal]

NO, but I was wondering if it would come off that way. My bad.

I say it's only a democracy if everyone VOTES.

Period.

It's simply my THEORY that if everyone voted, democrats would be elected, bacause this country is more poor than rich.

AND

It's interesting that the GOP has been much more resistant to voter reform than the dems.

My ideas are NOT partisan.

My belief is that the result would be.

If EVERYONE voted AND they voted GOP, c'est la vie.

At least then everyone had an equal chance to voice their opinion.

[JaneDead]

eternal i must correct you now:

it is boblo not bablo.

[the eternal]

I found my factchecker woohoo!!!!!!

[JaneDead]

"Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it."—Kirtland, Ohio, April 15, 2005

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."—Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

http://www.slate.com/id/76886/?nav=navoa