The Republicans took the house.

[phee]

Interesting.

Does not agreeing with homosexuality make you a homophobe? Does not agreeing that people should have darker skin make a person a racist? Yes.

Look at it like this... You can disagree with a president and he can be black (not racist). But disagreeing with the president BECAUSE he is black (racist).

Disagreeing with someone who is homosexual (not homophobic). Disagreeing with someone BECAUSE he is homosexual (homophobic).

Yes I do equate disagreeing with homosexuality is the same as disagreeing with someone "being black" or any other race... or disagreeing with someone with female sexuality... so yes.

Persecuting people for being homosexual is homophobic sorry... saying that someone has less rights because they are gay is homophobic. You don't have to "agree" with homosexuality, anymore then you have to agree with blond hair, just have enough respect to allow blonds and homosexuals to be equal to you.

I don't assume someone is racist if they disagree with a black president... but when they start calling him Kenyan or accusing him of being a secret Muslim, I don't have to assume they are racist, they have already proven they are.

[TheGimp]

Very well said

however this may make me sound ignorant....but hes not technically black is he...isn't he half black and half white? technically not making him black? i mean if you where ohhh for example Phee half Japanese and half Hispanic and i refereed to you as Hispanic is that accurate?

[phee]

To a racist.... half black and black are one in the same.

[TheGimp]

To a racist.... half black and black are one in the same.

ahhhhh fair enough....i could care less if Obama was black half black asian, mexican, arab whatever...i voted for him cuz i thought he could do a good job...i was just asking you're view on it.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Interesting.

Does not agreeing with homosexuality make you a homophobe? Does not agreeing that people should have darker skin make a person a racist? Yes.

Look at it like this... You can disagree with a president and he can be black (not racist). But disagreeing with the president BECAUSE he is black (racist).

Disagreeing with someone who is homosexual (not homophobic). Disagreeing with someone BECAUSE he is homosexual (homophobic).

Yes I do equate disagreeing with homosexuality is the same as disagreeing with someone "being black" or any other race... or disagreeing with someone with female sexuality... so yes.

Persecuting people for being homosexual is homophobic sorry... saying that someone has less rights because they are gay is homophobic. You don't have to "agree" with homosexuality, anymore then you have to agree with blond hair, just have enough respect to allow blonds and homosexuals to be equal to you.

I don't assume someone is racist if they disagree with a black president... but when they start calling him Kenyan or accusing him of being a secret Muslim, I don't have to assume they are racist, they have already proven they are.

but.. He is in fact of Kenyan and Muslim descent. His father was from Kenya and he was a Muslim. So, calling him a Kenyan or a non-practicing Muslim would be correct. According to Islamic law, children born to Islamic fathers are defacto Muslim.

A rose is a rose. It doesn't make one racist to to note someone's heritage or the laws of thier familys faith.

It becomes racists or bigoted when you note them with negative conitations. It's the thought that counts.

Also... thinking all conservatives are racists, homophobic and/or bigoted makes someone racist, homophobic and/or bigoted.

TheGimp: that depends on who you talk to. I have black conservative friends who deny that Obama is black. I also have black friends who wont acknowledge that he is white. My closest and best friends... never talk about his skin color. We mostly talk about how inept he is. Great speaker... he can talk all day long... but he is ineffectual as a leader and inept at policy.

[TheGimp]

TheGimp: that depends on who you talk to. I have black conservative friends who deny that Obama is black. I also have black friends who wont acknowledge that he is white. My closest and best friends... never talk about his skin color. We mostly talk about how inept he is. Great speaker... he can talk all day long... but he is ineffectual as a leader and inept at policy.

well i concur on his speaking skills and his charisma, i think the man has a lot of it. like i stated i could care less about the mans color of skin he could be an assortment of rainbow colors and i could careless, what i was getting at with what i was asking Phee was its known Obama is not 100% black so why refer to him as just black? that's what i don't understand

[phee]

I gotcha mate

I think that sometimes, perhaps without doing it consciously... people will try to find more fault with Obama because he is black(er). I personally think that Obama is doing a lot to hurt himself without the help of his race, but the stuff he has done that has helped is being overshadowed by peoples prejudice.

The flipside of that is if people are being MORE forgiving than they should be because of his racial background. I take as much issue with that than being to hard on him because of his racial background.

Let me put it in another context. Do you think that anyone was too hard or too soft on Regan simply because he was white? And then ask yourself if you think anyone has been too hard or too soft on Obama because he is black(er)? I think you are lying to yourself if you think the answer to the first question is Yes, and to the second is No.

And in yet another context. While it is true that many (and most likely the majority) of people who have a problem with Obama's policies are NOT RACIST. It is equally true that most racists will have a problem with Obama policy or not... So naturally which party/side/point of view will end up with more racists? (whether the party/side/point of view originally wanted them or not.) In a way, the fact that Obama is black, just because of all the racist people, has sort have been a curse for conservatives... Because a racist would most likely kind of go: "Well, I don't like Obama, they don't like him either, so I am one of them." And therefore, unfortunately an otherwise useful movement like the tea party... starts looking like extremists and bigots (even though the majority of them had legit disagreements, and were not racists, bigots, or extremists to begin with).

Happens to groups all the time... All of the nonviolent Muslims had a collective "Oh Shit" when 9/11 happened.

----

Back on topic... I hope that things like race will not get in the way people communicating better on both sides. (yeah not very realistic... but hope does not have to be.)

[phee]

(in response to Gaf)

Did anyone say that all conservatives are racists?

[phenom]

Phee,

I don't see how someone is homophobic for not agreeing with homosexuality. If they simply don't think it is right or moral, that makes them homophobic? Because they don't accept the practice of?

I guess that makes a majority of Americans homophobes then...

They don't hate the homosexual, they just don't agree with what they (homosexuals) are doing. That in no way makes them homophobes.

And don't blame religion. It's not religion that makes people unwelcoming to the gay lifestyle choice. I know plenty of atheists, myself included, that think that the homosexual act is disturbing/wrong/backwards... choose your word, just trying to be 'PC'..which I shouldn't be, and at the same time, I am not hating any of my openly gay friends for what they do. They are still human.

[Rev.Reverence]

I gotcha mate

I think that sometimes, perhaps without doing it consciously... people will try to find more fault with Obama because he is black(er). I personally think that Obama is doing a lot to hurt himself without the help of his race, but the stuff he has done that has helped is being overshadowed by peoples prejudice.

The flipside of that is if people are being MORE forgiving than they should be because of his racial background. I take as much issue with that than being to hard on him because of his racial background.

Let me put it in another context. Do you think that anyone was too hard or too soft on Regan simply because he was white? And then ask yourself if you think anyone has been too hard or too soft on Obama because he is black(er)? I think you are lying to yourself if you think the answer to the first question is Yes, and to the second is No.

And in yet another context. While it is true that many (and most likely the majority) of people who have a problem with Obama's policies are NOT RACIST. It is equally true that most racists will have a problem with Obama policy or not... So naturally which party/side/point of view will end up with more racists? (whether the party/side/point of view originally wanted them or not.) In a way, the fact that Obama is black, just because of all the racist people, has sort have been a curse for conservatives... Because a racist would most likely kind of go: "Well, I don't like Obama, they don't like him either, so I am one of them." And therefore, unfortunately an otherwise useful movement like the tea party... starts looking like extremists and bigots (even though the majority of them had legit disagreements, and were not racists, bigots, or extremists to begin with).

Happens to groups all the time... All of the nonviolent Muslims had a collective "Oh Shit" when 9/11 happened.

----

Back on topic... I hope that things like race will not get in the way people communicating better on both sides. (yeah not very realistic... but hope does not have to be.)

...I'm not 100% certain...but, I am pretty sure, that saying, "black(er)" is rascism...

[phee]

...I'm not 100% certain...but, I am pretty sure, that saying, "black(er)" is rascism...

That was mainly in reference to the question as to the % of his african american background, some people saying he is half black some people saying he is half white, was mainly trying to avoid the argument there.

[phee]

Phee,

I don't see how someone is homophobic for not agreeing with homosexuality. If they simply don't think it is right or moral, that makes them homophobic? Because they don't accept the practice of?

I guess that makes a majority of Americans homophobes then...

They don't hate the homosexual, they just don't agree with what they (homosexuals) are doing. That in no way makes them homophobes.

And don't blame religion. It's not religion that makes people unwelcoming to the gay lifestyle choice. I know plenty of atheists, myself included, that think that the homosexual act is disturbing/wrong/backwards... choose your word, just trying to be 'PC'..which I shouldn't be, and at the same time, I am not hating any of my openly gay friends for what they do. They are still human.

Again, homosexuality is not something that can be agreed with or disagreed with IMO, anymore then blue eyes can be agreed with or disagreed with. And yes, trying to keep someone who is homosexual from the same rights as someone who is heterosexual is homophobic.

I am not talking about approval here, I am talking about indifference at least. I mean, it's not like being for or against are the only options. And no I don't think religion is to blame here. I think it is a cultural thing.

As Rev would say: "Do what thow wilt" I don't think approval is necessary for that, just simply letting people be who and what they are. As soon as you start saying that heterosexual person A has more right to get married as homosexual person B, you are not neutral.

[Slogo]

but.. He is in fact of Kenyan and Muslim descent. His father was from Kenya and he was a Muslim. So, calling him a Kenyan or a non-practicing Muslim would be correct. According to Islamic law, children born to Islamic fathers are defacto Muslim.

A rose is a rose. It doesn't make one racist to to note someone's heritage or the laws of thier familys faith.

Maybe...but from everything I've read about his father he isn't a very good Muslim. If anything he sounds like he converted to Atheism. So if that defines him as being Muslim, then I can only be defined as a Catholic. My dad was a Catholic (40 years ago) therefore I am a Catholic with all of the negative connotations such as pedofilia, persecution and drunkenness. Of which only the last is remotely true.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Maybe...but from everything I've read about his father he isn't a very good Muslim. If anything he sounds like he converted to Atheism. So if that defines him as being Muslim, then I can only be defined as a Catholic. My dad was a Catholic (40 years ago) therefore I am a Catholic with all of the negative connotations such as pedofilia, persecution and drunkenness. Of which only the last is remotely true.

That arguement does not fly. The Catholics have no birth right rules/laws. Muslim's do. According to Islamic Law, once a Muslim always a Muslim. To turn your back on Islam warrants Death. Muslims who follow Islamic law see Obama as a non-practicing Muslim as he was born to a Muslim father. His father did infact become an Athiest and if he had lived in a country under Islamic law they would have killed him for it.

[Slogo]

That arguement does not fly. The Catholics have no birth right rules/laws. Muslim's do. According to Islamic Law, once a Muslim always a Muslim. To turn your back on Islam warrants Death. Muslims who follow Islamic law see Obama as a non-practicing Muslim as he was born to a Muslim father. His father did infact become an Athiest and if he had lived in a country under Islamic law they would have killed him for it.

But if you don't follow Islamic Law then he would not be a Muslim. Here in America we are not bound by Sharia, therefore, those claiming he is (by default) a Muslim, follow Islamic Law.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

But if you don't follow Islamic Law then he would not be a Muslim. Here in America we are not bound by Sharia, therefore, those claiming he is (by default) a Muslim, follow Islamic Law.

Perhaps... or perhaps it's respecting thier traditions. I don;t really care. His religion or skin color are not what I have problems with. It's his policys and his approach to implimenting them that i have issue with.

[phee]

Perhaps... or perhaps it's respecting thier traditions. I don;t really care. His religion or skin color are not what I have problems with. It's his policys and his approach to implimenting them that i have issue with.

It is unfortunate that more people who associate themselves with the Tea Party aren't following the same reasoning.

[KatRN05]

It is unfortunate that more people who associate themselves with the Tea Party aren't following the same reasoning.

Exactly. There are many rotten apples in the Tea Party. I don't know if Sharon Angle was someone the Tea Party supported but I am so glad the crazy bitch did not get elected. From what I've read she's very conservative. But anyhow, I saw some video of her where she said that Dearborn was under Sharia Law and I thought to myself "this bitch is fucking stupid". I don't recall the laws of Dearborn changing because of the Muslim population.

Anyhow, as much as I do not care for Obama's policies, I could care less if he is/was a Muslim.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It is unfortunate that more people who associate themselves with the Tea Party aren't following the same reasoning.

I'm happy that the vast majority of them are.

[phee]

The Tea party needs to close ranks and try to get the crazy out of itself.... they are really bringing you guys down. A couple of things would be to stop letting Sara Palin speak for you, and also try to discourage people like Christine O'Donnell from running.

[the eternal]

Am I the only one looking at the index where it says The Republicans took the ho...

What did they do with her after taking her?

Read her the constitution?

Quiz her to see if she could be a good mama grizzly in the making?

Unzip their pants to show her all the unnecessary pork that is clogging up the bills in Washington?

[creatureofthenyte]

Am I the only one looking at the index where it says The Republicans took the ho...

What did they do with her after taking her?

Read her the constitution?

Quiz her to see if she could be a good mama grizzly in the making?

Unzip their pants to show her all the unnecessary pork that is clogging up the bills in Washington?

[Slogo]

Actually I think the Tea Party and Muslims are very similar.

All the sane and rational followers are drowned out by people who make Norman Bates seem like someone who has it all together

[KatRN05]

Actually I think the Tea Party and Muslims are very similar.

All the sane and rational followers are drowned out by people who make Norman Bates seem like someone who has it all together

+1000

[phee]

Actually I think the Tea Party and Muslims are very similar.

All the sane and rational followers are drowned out by people who make Norman Bates seem like someone who has it all together

Yep.

I agree.

And as I was trying to say before the thread was a bit.... jacked, I hope the extremists don't fuck everything up.