Gun rights extended by Supreme Court

[Rev.Reverence]

If they are 'walk by' then they are not 'drive by' as I was describing.

But, it happens ALL the time...take away the guns, & it'll just happen more, OR...the ass hats will FIND guns...OR..you'll see a mass resurgence of bow & arrow drive-bys (Mongolian Drive-By)

[phee]

But, it happens ALL the time...take away the guns, & it'll just happen more, OR...the ass hats will FIND guns...OR..you'll see a mass resurgence of bow & arrow drive-bys (Mongolian Drive-By)

That was my point... taking away guns is NOT the answer to this problem.... but guns in general make killing easier... (I believe that is why they were invented)

[Rev.Reverence]

That was my point... taking away guns is NOT the answer to this problem.... but guns in general make killing easier... (I believe that is why they were invented)

*ponders*

YUP...to get through the plate-mail, & have as greater distance...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

*ponders*

YUP...to get through the plate-mail, & have as greater distance...

Actually, that was the crossbow, hence "the Church" banning the common man from owning a crossbow.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

I for the most part agree....

With a couple of exceptions....

One: Firefights don't only kill the people who are shooting at each other... innocent people are killed at a faster rate also by the stupid asses....

Two: Guns don't kill people, people kill people... (this is true) BUT guns make it a lot easier and less personal of an act to do so... I have not heard of a drive by knifing in quite some time.

Sir.. I think you are the first to invent "Drive by Knifings" lmao!!! And true innocent lives can be taken while in a "war" but that happens everywhere. It surely doesn't make it right, but people can die from anything.. Though I have somewhat of a fatalist view point (meaning when it's our time, it's our time) so It's hard for me to personally view the other side of the coin here, however I can still understand the reasons of those who oppose this extention.

*EDIT* I must also give props to Rev for bringing up the old bow & arrow or cross bow drive by shootings... As fucked up as it would be, it would be getting mid evil up in Detroit the day guns are banned.. what's next, a drive by macing? (ball and chain)

All in all, I don't trust our government that much to feel ok with giving up fire arms. Also, my house IS my castle. That's my sanctuary, not yours. (yours being a general term for anyone who is entering uninvited) Yes, I am one of those people that will spray the shit out of someone who broke into my house with my shot gun rifle. Those who live in my castle can sleep easy and feel safe knowing anyone who may be foolish enough to enter in uninvited is assumed to be up to no good, quite possibly threatening the lives of those in my castle, so they are foolishly stepping into a very slow and agonizing death.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Epic_Fail_Guy

[Rev.Reverence]

Actually, that was the crossbow, hence "the Church" banning the common man from owning a crossbow.

THEN...they invented the musket.

Why must you ALWAYS ARGUE EVERYTHING, with EVERYONE!???

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

THEN...they invented the musket.

Why must you ALWAYS ARGUE EVERYTHING, with EVERYONE!???

I don't argue everything with everyone. When someome spouts off misinformation, I correct them. If they choose to be argumentative, thats on them.

[Raev]

Introduce a violent product into a household and violence/violent ideals will prosper.

Please cite something to back up this statement. I am calling you out on it.

Reason being - I've grown up around firearms. I personally own firearms. My mother owns firearms. My father owned firearms before he passed. My grandparents had firearms. Uncles. Aunts. Not a single member of my family has any kind of record of violent crime. I personally see violence as a critical last resort, preferring to walk away whenever possible. My family, people who all see violence and firearms as a terrible thing and a last resort - all grew up with guns. Violent ideals did not prosper.

My statement will be such - with any item that can be lethal, a good education and healthy respect for them and the laws that they are effected by needs to be taught. Ignorance is more dangerous than a gun.

[Raev]

Excuse me? I'm pretty sure you are dead wrong about automatic weapons. As far as I know, it takes a Class 3 collectors lic. to own an automatic weapon and that my friend, is not something just anyone can get.

I *think* this is correct.

Semi automatic weapons and "assault" weapons are easier to get but a fully automatic firearm is heavily regulated and restricted.

[Druella]

My statement will be such - with any item that can be lethal, a good education and healthy respect for them and the laws that they are effected by needs to be taught. Ignorance is more dangerous than a gun.

THIS!!!!! I grew up around guns and have never been in a fight!

As far as people being able to get guns so cheaply I think that is okay too. What they should do is make bullets like $100 a round then we will see crime drop hahaha

[WhiteLines]

Please cite something to back up this statement. I am calling you out on it.

Reason being - I've grown up around firearms. I personally own firearms. My mother owns firearms. My father owned firearms before he passed. My grandparents had firearms. Uncles. Aunts. Not a single member of my family has any kind of record of violent crime. I personally see violence as a critical last resort, preferring to walk away whenever possible. My family, people who all see violence and firearms as a terrible thing and a last resort - all grew up with guns. Violent ideals did not prosper.

My statement will be such - with any item that can be lethal, a good education and healthy respect for them and the laws that they are effected by needs to be taught. Ignorance is more dangerous than a gun.

Absolutely, thanks Raev, you are certainly correct. I have grown up in similar conditions and believe that having a proper respect for firearms and making sure to be educated correctly and educate those in the home is of great importance. A gun is only an inanimate object though, and it doesnt have the power to make someone into a violent person. Violent nature is influenced by an individuals upbringing, their personality, and beliefs... the individual who interacts with the firearm is the key part in making it more or less dangerous, an ignorant person will no doubt be more likely to be dangerous.

... i'm also an assault rifle owner and they are something that not anyone can just go and pick up with ease. The laws are strict, and i actually have mine stored in southern ohio as i did not want to move it over state lines when i came to michigan some years ago.

[Slogo]

THIS!!!!! I grew up around guns and have never been in a fight!

As far as people being able to get guns so cheaply I think that is okay too. What they should do is make bullets like $100 a round then we will see crime drop hahaha

[KatRN05]

Introduce a violent product into a household and violence/violent ideals will prosper.

I am with Raev. The above statement is complete and utter bullshit. I too have grown up around firearms and nothing violent ever happened in my parents household with regards to the guns.

My friend who was a nurse and her patient had their heads blown off back in January when she was making her weekly visit to take care of him. I THINK ABOUT IT EVERY FUCKING DAY!! I work in Detroit and even around the hospital violence persists. I want my CCW for my safety not because I am thinking "Good, I have a gun, I will kill everyone"..I want a weapon because when it comes down to it, my life is more valuable than the stupid fuck who is trying to rob or assault me.

Edited July 1, 2010 by KatRN05

[Slogo]

I don't have a gun. And probably never would. I'm too fucking angry and get frustrated very quick.

Here's the math

PLUS

PLUS

EQUALS

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

I *think* this is correct.

Semi automatic weapons and "assault" weapons are easier to get but a fully automatic firearm is heavily regulated and restricted.

yeah that's what I meant, i wasn't too clear on the whole subject. I just know it happened sometime during bush's first term and a bunch of my friends were makin a big deal of celebration out of it and owning all these crazy ass guns and shit. Back then I really didn't have much of an interest in guns like I do now, so I didn't pay attention to the details as much whether they were semi's or fully automatics.

[Reaper]

I am with Raev. The above statement is complete and utter bullshit. I too have grown up around firearms and nothing violent ever happened in my parents household with regards to the guns.

My friend who was a nurse and her patient had their heads blown off back in January when she was making her weekly visit to take care of him. I THINK ABOUT IT EVERY FUCKING DAY!! I work in Detroit and even around the hospital violence persists. I want my CCW for my safety not because I am thinking "Good, I have a gun, I will kill everyone"..I want a weapon because when it comes down to it, my life is more valuable than the stupid fuck who is trying to rob or assault me.

Yep, same here. I grew up with access to shotguns and a pistol because we were all hunters. But I guess with that was a responsibility because I was taught about guns. Always best to lock up guns if there are kids around though. Thieves are going to get guns one way or another. At least when he comes to my house with one, I don't have to sit there on my knees with it pointed at my head wondering how it would have changed had I owned a gun myself.

[WhiteLines]

I gotta say that Phee's "drive-by knifings" had a good ring to it- LMFAO -thank you for that one! But secondly i'd like to mention that Spook had some very good points earlier about this being an issue of the interpretation and application of constitutional law just as much as or even more so than its about guns, and his post has some very valid points on the subject. On the other hand however, the whole gun thing has brought forth some hilarious comments out there in this thread. I give my thanks to all those out there who made a funny :D

[n0Mad]

I gotta say that Phee's "drive-by knifings" had a good ring to it- LMFAO -thank you for that one!

That's what sabres were invented for. There was a whole group that specialized in drive-by knifings; they were called the Mounted Cavalry.

But secondly i'd like to mention that Spook had some very good points earlier about this being an issue of the interpretation and application of constitutional law just as much as or even more so than its about guns, and his post has some very valid points on the subject.

Thank you. I try to maintain a broad focus on most things and not be so narrow minded.

On the other hand however, the whole gun thing has brought forth some hilarious comments out there in this thread. I give my thanks to all those out there who made a funny :D

True.

[Soulrev]

There was never a full ban on assault rifles, anyways. That law basically covered extended CLIPS and such from being SOLD at the time. If you already owned them, you were ok, they were just not supposed to be "sold". We've had assault rifles in the racks for years.

Oh and I loved some certain comments I saw here.

Do you all really think the world is a big happy fucking place? I mean, the ones who think gun laws are going to make a fuck of a difference, you really think that?

Look, it's all pointless. If someone wants a firearm they can get one, after all, this is America. I don't care what the "laws" say, I'm saying what "real" says. If you think gun laws are effective, you're on better dope than you should be, and should be robbed of it, anyways. C'mon.. Half of you people are from one of the most violent cities in America, too. Don't tell me I can't get a gun in Detroit for less than 300 bucks cash ready to fire off the street. I know I can get 'em for at least that cheap in Chicago.

Criminals are going to be criminals. Eliminate guns, then you will just start a chain. The problem isn't going to disappear by removing the tools. If you start banning guns, soon, we'll all be living in padded rooms with straight jackets because every sharp object and potentially harmful device would be banned.

How about martial arts? Might as well ban those, as well. Throwing knives.. Baseballs can be deadly, in the right hands. Oh and shit what about nail GUNs. Caulk GUNs. Spray GUNs. Water GUNs. Oh my god the possibilities of endless carnage I coud create from any of those easily obtainable items.

So, let's all worry now, because ***GOD FORBID*** MAYBE the INNOCENT would like to, just MAYBE, like to.. Level the .. playing field.. Oh god I'm going to say it.. for ... sellff..... ohhh ... DEFENSE??

<catches his breath>

I know, I know, real talk is fuckin hard.. Oh, you make it? You still paying attention, wee one? Good.

There may be hope for you, yet. Maybe I can teach you more, another time.

[torn asunder]

There was never a full ban on assault rifles, anyways. That law basically covered extended CLIPS and such from being SOLD at the time. If you already owned them, you were ok, they were just not supposed to be "sold". We've had assault rifles in the racks for years.

Oh and I loved some certain comments I saw here.

Do you all really think the world is a big happy fucking place? I mean, the ones who think gun laws are going to make a fuck of a difference, you really think that?

Look, it's all pointless. If someone wants a firearm they can get one, after all, this is America. I don't care what the "laws" say, I'm saying what "real" says. If you think gun laws are effective, you're on better dope than you should be, and should be robbed of it, anyways. C'mon.. Half of you people are from one of the most violent cities in America, too. Don't tell me I can't get a gun in Detroit for less than 300 bucks cash ready to fire off the street. I know I can get 'em for at least that cheap in Chicago.

Criminals are going to be criminals. Eliminate guns, then you will just start a chain. The problem isn't going to disappear by removing the tools. If you start banning guns, soon, we'll all be living in padded rooms with straight jackets because every sharp object and potentially harmful device would be banned.

How about martial arts? Might as well ban those, as well. Throwing knives.. Baseballs can be deadly, in the right hands. Oh and shit what about nail GUNs. Caulk GUNs. Spray GUNs. Water GUNs. Oh my god the possibilities of endless carnage I coud create from any of those easily obtainable items.

So, let's all worry now, because ***GOD FORBID*** MAYBE the INNOCENT would like to, just MAYBE, like to.. Level the .. playing field.. Oh god I'm going to say it.. for ... sellff..... ohhh ... DEFENSE??

<catches his breath>

I know, I know, real talk is fuckin hard.. Oh, you make it? You still paying attention, wee one? Good.

There may be hope for you, yet. Maybe I can teach you more, another time.

you know, i agree with you on this, and i know you're a decent guy, but damn, you come across like a condescending ass in this post... (sorry, but it *is* real talk here, right?)

[Soulrev]

I know, I did come off that way, but only for a reason. I feel very strongly about NOT coming up with any more "Gun Control" laws and regulations. If ANYTHING, I would be an avid supporter of more firearm safety education.

I mean, yeah sure, it would be great if we could say "Ook everyone, now guns are illegal, so just go ahead and turn them in now" and violence went away. But it's not going to. Violence is in our nature. It's going to happen, regardless. All I'm saying, if you take the guns away, who are you really taking them from? I want you to think about that. Does the two time felon give a shit if you ban guns? Fuck no. You know why? Because he's already a two time felon. He "can't" buy a gun already in the first place, right? Well, he's already a two time felon.. So what's going to stop him from breaking the law again and buying an illegal firearm off of the street?

Again, I say, think about it. Who really suffers from gun control? I'll tell you. It's you, and I. The innocent people too scared to break the law. In the end, gun control is just that. It controls who has guns. You know who has guns with gun control? The cops and the criminals. Simple. Is that what you call balancing the equation? Because, I don't see it that way.

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as an ass, exactly, just, wanted to express how insane I think gun control really is.

[phee]

When did control start to = take all mai guns away?

[Destroit]

This isn't even a guns issue. Love them or hate them, it's irrelevant. This case is about how Constitutional Law applies to the States and local communities. Does the Constitution and its Bill of Rights, the supreme law of our country, apply only to the Federal Government, or all governments within the country as well, i.e. States, Cities, et. al.? Five Justices on the Supreme Court say that yes, the Constitution is broad based and everybody within the US must follow the framework set up by Constitutional law. Four Justices, on the other hand, state that no, cities, states, and smaller governing bodies can choose to ignore parts of the Constitution they don't like. I, for one, am glad of the majority decision on this case.

Why? Let's look at some of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights ...

#1, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

If the minority opinion got their way, they could say this only applies to Congress. The City of Detroit could legally say that all who live within must be an Islamic Fundamentalist and if you choose not to follow that religion, then you can be banished from the city or worse. Furthermore, the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press can only print which articles the government allows and only with wording the government approves. Oh, and internet access? Not in this city.

#3, "No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

Four Supreme Court Justices feel that if community safety is of paramount importance, then a city could state that every household would have to make room for a National Guard member to move in. That police officer knocking on your door right now? You have to let him in, feed him, give him a bed to sleep in, a shower to use, clothes to wear, etc. And no, you will not get reimbursed for this. The Constitution does not apply to your city so you'll just have to deal with this minor inconvenience for the good of the rest of the city.

#4, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Well, no knock warrants are already a reality so I guess the viewpoint of the minority Justices is already somewhat of a reality. Good thing there are still five Justices who may be able to keep us secure if things get worse and matters go to court.

#5, "No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

#6, "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense."

#7, "In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

#8, "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

Well, this is only federal crimes, right? If your city says no parking on the street after dark under penalty of death, then a cop can just shoot you right on the spot if he sees you parking at night. Right? Seems excessive, doesn't it? But who cares? No trial necessary because the Constitution does not apply in this case. Or so four SCOTUS Justices would say.

I could go on all night, but I'm sure you get my point. This case was not about guns. Gun law just happened to be the catalyst that brought this case to SCOTUS. This case is really about our freedom and liberty. I am glad at least five justices have their heads screwed on straight. Yes, the Constitution applies to Federal Government, State Government, County Government, City Government ... all the way down to you and me.

[Destroit]

I for the most part agree....

With a couple of exceptions....

One: Firefights don't only kill the people who are shooting at each other... innocent people are killed at a faster rate also by the stupid asses....

Two: Guns don't kill people, people kill people... (this is true) BUT guns make it a lot easier and less personal of an act to do so... I have not heard of a drive by knifing in quite some time.

Phee, it's called jousting...duh! Haven't you been to Ren Fest? Just imagine that shit but in the modern times, like a Ford Focus versus a Chevy Cobalt, for instance.

Phee, it's called jousting...duh! Haven't you been to Ren Fest? Just imagine that shit but in the modern times, like a Ford Focus versus a Chevy Cobalt, for instance.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

When did control start to = take all mai guns away?

Right about the time that bans on ownership were inacted in Washington DC and Chicago.