Michigan workplaces -- including bars and restaurants -- will go smokefree in May

[taysteewonderbunny]

...yuperz...this country is founded upon liberty, personal liberties, we have now run into a spot where personal liberties are clashing...

...what about MY right to breathe?...Yup, another fat-old-lady wearing the WHOLE BOTTLE of perfume to K-MART...LET'S BAN THAT!

Perfume and nailpolish is already banned on the Megabus.

[AstralCrux]

Perfume and nailpolish is already banned on the Megabus.

But, as a company they have the right to make those restrictions. The government shouldn't be in control of that.

On a side note: When you say nailpolish... Do you mean painted nails or the bottle of polish? Or both?

[Rev.Reverence]

But, as a company they have the right to make those restrictions. The government shouldn't be in control of that.

On a side note: When you say nailpolish... Do you mean painted nails or the bottle of polish? Or both?

No painting nails ON the bus, I thinks.

[candyman]

...yuperz...this country is founded upon liberty, personal liberties, we have now run into a spot where personal liberties are clashing...

...what about MY right to breathe?...Yup, another fat-old-lady wearing the WHOLE BOTTLE of perfume to K-MART...LET'S BAN THAT!

Just a _tiny bit of perfume plugs up my nose and make me sneeze alot...but I could really care as long as I get my beer and my cigarettes in the bar...the smoke covers up the smell of rancid flowers!

[Nightgaunt]

I am soooo glad they enacted this law. I'm so unbelievably sick of people eating meat around me. I mean, whenever I smell meat on someone's breath, it just makes me want to gag. Also, a carnivorous diet makes farts smell so much worse. You think I want my kids exposed to that? Do you know how much your risk of heart disease and certain kinds of cancer goes up when you eat meat? (I heard that it does, but I've never actually seen a study that proves it.) All I hear is people whining about how their "right" to eat meat is being abridged. What about my right to not have to look at a lump of flesh sitting in a pool of blood and grease at the next table? What about the poor animals' rights to life and liberty?

Oh wait, that's next year.

Carry on.

[Bpage]

wow, haven't seen you here in ages!

living the dream here in 'smoke free' California, I lurk around from time to time to see what's up!

[phee]

I am soooo glad they enacted this law. I'm so unbelievably sick of people eating meat around me. I mean, whenever I smell meat on someone's breath, it just makes me want to gag. Also, a carnivorous diet makes farts smell so much worse. You think I want my kids exposed to that? Do you know how much your risk of heart disease and certain kinds of cancer goes up when you eat meat? (I heard that it does, but I've never actually seen a study that proves it.) All I hear is people whining about how their "right" to eat meat is being abridged. What about my right to not have to look at a lump of flesh sitting in a pool of blood and grease at the next table? What about the poor animals' rights to life and liberty?

Oh wait, that's next year.

Carry on.

Again... not a good comparison... by someone eating meat in public they are not forcing others to eat meat, or shoving it down their throats. Its not about "seeing" someone smoking, it's about being forced to consume the smoke that they are consuming.

[candyman]

Again... not a good comparison... by someone eating meat in public they are not forcing others to eat meat, or shoving it down their throats. Its not about "seeing" someone smoking, it's about being forced to consume the smoke that they are consuming.

And yet people still manage to take offense at the act of eating meat. Some people call you unhealthy, some call you a fat-ass (even though I am quite skinny), some people call you cruel, PETA will show you their boobs, and others just bitch about how it is still red in the middle and they all do this WHILE YOU ARE EATING! GTFO I am enjoying a meal!

An issue here is taking offense...and yes many people may not really care about health...they just care about how they smell when they come home. Bad reasons...and yes there are a good number of people that probably do base their argument or hatred purely on the smell...I know 4 of these people.

If a comparison meets with just one aspect of the subject it is good...otherwise some of your comparisons would fail.

[phee]

And yet people still manage to take offense at the act of eating meat. Some people call you unhealthy, some call you a fat-ass (even though I am quite skinny), some people call you cruel, PETA will show you their boobs, and others just bitch about how it is still red in the middle and they all do this WHILE YOU ARE EATING! GTFO I am enjoying a meal!

An issue here is taking offense...and yes many people may not really care about health...they just care about how they smell when they come home. Bad reasons...and yes there are a good number of people that probably do base their argument or hatred purely on the smell...I know 4 of these people.

If a comparison meets with just one aspect of the subject it is good...otherwise some of your comparisons would fail.

I can only talk about my perspective on this... people smoking don't bother me... me smoking does. Seeing someone smoke does not bother me, hearing someone smoke does not not bother me, breathing what people smoke does.... therefor no its not the same as eating meat.

[candyman]

I can only talk about my perspective on this... people smoking don't bother me... me smoking does. Seeing someone smoke does not bother me, hearing someone smoke does not not bother me, breathing what people smoke does.... therefor no its not the same as eating meat.

I can dig it...

Wait, you can hear people smoke? Are you talking about the act or about how much we wheeze afterwards?

[phee]

I can dig it...

Wait, you can hear people smoke? Are you talking about the act or about how much we wheeze afterwards?

heh both...

Hearing a chick smoke (as in light up and inhale) is hawt... hearing their voice after words sounding like a Florida Death Metal singer... not so much.

[candyman]

heh both...

Hearing a chick smoke (as in light up and inhale) is hawt... hearing their voice after words sounding like a Florida Death Metal singer... not so much.

Are you sure it wasn't just a Florida Death Metal singer? I have met many women that smoke and still sound good...it all depends on age, how much they smoke, and what their voice was like before.

[Rayne]

I can dig it...

Wait, you can hear people smoke? Are you talking about the act or about how much we wheeze afterwards?

Actually, if it is quiet, you can. I grew up in a house where my Mom, Dad, older sister and little brother smoked. As did their friends and eventually, their spouses as well. If it is quiet enough, when they inhale, you can hear the paper and tobacco burn. I remember it from my childhood clearly.

[StormKnight (1)]

I can dig it...

Wait, you can hear people smoke? Are you talking about the act or about how much we wheeze afterwards?

Actually, if it is quiet, you can. I grew up in a house where my Mom, Dad, older sister and little brother smoked. As did their friends and eventually, their spouses as well. If it is quiet enough, when they inhale, you can hear the paper and tobacco burn. I remember it from my childhood clearly.

As someone who was raised by smokers, and trained to listen to heart beats, yes, I can hear the sounds of the paper and tobacco burn and pop. I could hear it in normal conversation volume. (And people wonder why I protect my hearing when I am in a club.)

Edited December 20, 2009 by StormKnight

[candyman]

As someone who was raised by smokers, and trained to listen to heart beats, yes, I can hear the sounds of the paper and tobacco burn and pop. I could hear it in normal conversation volume. (And people wonder why I protect my hearing when I am in a club.)

Did they smoke cloves? Those things pop like crazy.

With the cigarettes I smoke now people can hear me exhale...my friend brought them back from Afghanistan when he was stationed there...$8 a carton and with these you can actually tell that they are killing you!

[Rayne]

Did they smoke cloves? Those things pop like crazy.

With the cigarettes I smoke now people can hear me exhale...my friend brought them back from Afghanistan when he was stationed there...$8 a carton and with these you can actually tell that they are killing you!

No one I ever knew smoked cloves. Only cheap ones, my dad smokes non-filter, and my brother smoked Marlboro until he got poor.

[candyman]

Ugh...Marbs...you know you had a bad night when you come home smelling like Marbs and Old Style...

[n0Mad]

No one I ever knew smoked cloves.

And no one you know will. Because they are BANNED! Stupid government.

[Nightgaunt]

Again... not a good comparison... by someone eating meat in public they are not forcing others to eat meat, or shoving it down their throats. Its not about "seeing" someone smoking, it's about being forced to consume the smoke that they are consuming.

I don't understand how anyone is forcing you to do anything. If I'm standing on a street corner and a car is idling next to me, I move away to avoid breathing the exhaust fumes. I don't whine at Congress to outlaw motor vehicles.

I wasn't really trying to compare the two, per se. It was more of a reaction to the glee and "nyah-nyah-nyah" attitude I keep getting shoved down my throat. Today, the law limits the freedom of people who do something you don't. Tomorrow, you'll be affected.

Here's how I see the issue:

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are (the manifold abuses by Federal, state, and local governments notwithstanding) the Law of the Land. The Bill of Rights enumerates certain "natural" or "god-given" rights to us all. The right to not ever have to encounter cigarette smoke is not among them, so I'm not buying the "But what about my right to not breathe your nasty secondhand smoke?" argument. I also keep hearing about the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That would be a convenient catch-all, were it actually in the Constitution. Regardless, this line from the Declaration of Independence refers to the natural right of the individual to pursue his or her destiny without interference from the government. The very idea that the legislature can tell a business owner what he or she can or can not allow on private property (apart from partaking in unlawful, prohibited substances) is antithetical to the spirit of our nation. Yes, I get that this is a state issue, and that this is one of those things that, as the Bill of Rights says, "falls to the states themselves, or to the people", but the spirit is the same.

The very fact that we're now going to have legions of cops in every bar, club, and restaurant in the state looking for people smoking and issuing tickets should tell you that this is not, at heart,, a public health issue. This is a revenue-generator at best. At worst, it's conditioning to knuckle under to authority no matter how ridiculous the edict. If this were the government trying to show us how very concerned it is about our health, they'd be fining the bar owners, not individual patrons for violations.

[AstralCrux]

I don't understand how anyone is forcing you to do anything. If I'm standing on a street corner and a car is idling next to me, I move away to avoid breathing the exhaust fumes. I don't whine at Congress to outlaw motor vehicles.

I wasn't really trying to compare the two, per se. It was more of a reaction to the glee and "nyah-nyah-nyah" attitude I keep getting shoved down my throat. Today, the law limits the freedom of people who do something you don't. Tomorrow, you'll be affected.

Here's how I see the issue:

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are (the manifold abuses by Federal, state, and local governments notwithstanding) the Law of the Land. The Bill of Rights enumerates certain "natural" or "god-given" rights to us all. The right to not ever have to encounter cigarette smoke is not among them, so I'm not buying the "But what about my right to not breathe your nasty secondhand smoke?" argument. I also keep hearing about the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That would be a convenient catch-all, were it actually in the Constitution. Regardless, this line from the Declaration of Independence refers to the natural right of the individual to pursue his or her destiny without interference from the government. The very idea that the legislature can tell a business owner what he or she can or can not allow on private property (apart from partaking in unlawful, prohibited substances) is antithetical to the spirit of our nation. Yes, I get that this is a state issue, and that this is one of those things that, as the Bill of Rights says, "falls to the states themselves, or to the people", but the spirit is the same.

The very fact that we're now going to have legions of cops in every bar, club, and restaurant in the state looking for people smoking and issuing tickets should tell you that this is not, at heart,, a public health issue. This is a revenue-generator at best. At worst, it's conditioning to knuckle under to authority no matter how ridiculous the edict. If this were the government trying to show us how very concerned it is about our health, they'd be fining the bar owners, not individual patrons for violations.

+ 10^42

[torn asunder]

I don't understand how anyone is forcing you to do anything. If I'm standing on a street corner and a car is idling next to me, I move away to avoid breathing the exhaust fumes. I don't whine at Congress to outlaw motor vehicles.

if i work there, you *are* forcing me, because more likely than not, i can't afford to just walk out & quit my job so as not to breathe your smoke.

how hard is that for anyone to understand? i just don't get it...

[Draco1958]

if i work there, you *are* forcing me, because more likely than not, i can't afford to just walk out & quit my job so as not to breathe your smoke.

how hard is that for anyone to understand? i just don't get it...

Try this. I worked for an airport shuttle. In 8 years I can't count the number of times I had an asthma attack because someone wore too much perfume. And I had NO choice. ANd yes, it may not cause cancer but your lungs shutting down can kill you, especially when it happens on the freeway at 70mph. I agree there should be smoking/non-smoking areas. With a good filtration system, most of the smoke goes away. A place near me did that and it cut about 70% of the smoke out. There are good compromises(can never spell this word) available but no one wants them. It's just no smoking period. And yes soon you won't be able to smoke in your own car if a child is present. It is being discussed. I feel no smoking in places should be an option, not mandatory. Non-smokers say they have no choice but for the most part you do, it's called don't go there. And please I don't want to hear, but that's not fair because I like that place. Try being a smoker and go without a cig for several hours. It's not fun either. Or not go to your favorite place because it's too cold or stormy to go outside to smoke. Businesses in Ohio were hurt, some still are down in business because of the ban. All I am trying to say is everyone has a choice, to smoke, not smoke avoid plaves that are either way. I started smoking due to stress. It's what keeps me calm right now. I go too long without and I get bitchy. Instead of a ban, why not offer businesses incentives to go non-smoking and help businesses that want to keep it, upgrade their air systems to help eliminate most of the smoke. They keep raising the taxes on cigs so why not put that money to good use.

[AstralCrux]

On a slightly related note:

us cell phone warnings

We could just ban these now and save time!

[Simon Bar Sinister]

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are (the manifold abuses by Federal, state, and local governments notwithstanding) the Law of the Land. The Bill of Rights enumerates certain "natural" or "god-given" rights to us all. The right to not ever have to encounter cigarette smoke is not among them

neither is the right to smoke

[candyman]

if i work there, you *are* forcing me, because more likely than not, i can't afford to just walk out & quit my job so as not to breathe your smoke.

how hard is that for anyone to understand? i just don't get it...

What about the bar workers that smoke? Yep, they do exist and there are alot of them in my town. What are they supposed to do? They can't just step outside with us to smoke, but they probably will anyways to keep out drunk asses from wandering into traffic. NOT ALL BARTENDERS HATE THE SMOKE! Also, some of them may have *gasp* CHOSEN this job!