Black NAils For Boys?

[Lilith]

My son, who is now 11, wants to wear Black nail polish, WIth summer vacation here and no worries abot school problems I am most likley going to let him do it. I did how ever want to get your thoughts on the subject befor i do, so.......

What age did the males aroud here start to wear Black NAil Polish?

What age would you let your SON start to wear Black nail polish?

What was your come back to those who Commented on your black nail polish?

Give me all your thoughts and ideas on this subject

[honeymustard02]

I say as long as he's happy with it and is strong enough to stick up for himself (with words not fighting) I say let him.

People are so afraid to let their kids express themselves and kids never learn to fight back with words or be different.

[Homicidalheathen]

My kids freind wears it but he is out (gay) yes and very goth. He wears it to school but he is in High school where they dont pick and tease as much about such things.

Personally at 12 I would let him do anything but show body parts....pierce body parts.....or tattoo body parts. All that waits until they are 16 for me.

[Brenda Starrr]

My son wants to wear it as well. So far, my answer has been no. Socially, he's doing better, but I don't want him to be harassed than he has been in the past. Around here, the black nail polish wouldn't go over so well.

I'm letting him grow his hair out, though.

[BrassFusion]

My son wants to wear it as well. So far, my answer has been no. Socially, he's doing better, but I don't want him to be harassed than he has been in the past.  Around here, the black nail polish wouldn't go over so well.

I'm letting him grow his hair out, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that the major consideration would be whether your kid can handle taking shit because of it, because they definitely will have to.

It sucks that kids are so judgemental. That's why a lot of them love halloween so much, because the boys who always wanted to dress pretty like a girl (which doesn't always make them gay, of course) get to if they want, for a day. Stupid gender roles.

[Msterbeau]

Stupid gender roles.

Yeah.

I've been trying to de-program my girls from some of the stuff they pick up about gender-related cliches. Like colors... We played the game Life yesterday. I'm sure the game's creators intended the pink "people" to be girls and the blue ones boys... but I've been telling them they can be whatever they wish. Yesterday they both chose a blue piece to represtent them, but for different reasons. I loved it...

Back on topic...

I'd be pretty open to letting a boy wear black nail polish whenever. It's a good point about making sure he can deal with the inevitable bullshit he'll get, though.

[Slept with ghost]

kida are going to take shit i say let them do what they want and wear what they want to

the sad fact of the matter is that people are going to point fingers either way so you might as well give them the freedom to be who they want to be

[Blackmail]

Yeah.

I've been trying to de-program my girls from some of the stuff they pick up about gender-related cliches.  Like colors...  We played the game Life yesterday.  I'm sure the game's creators intended the pink "people" to be girls and the blue ones boys...  but I've been telling them they can be whatever they wish.  Yesterday they both chose a blue piece to represtent them, but for different reasons.  I loved it... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, masculine and feminine identities are often genetic, attraction to blue for example, is something common in boys from very early ages. Gender roles are not "stupid", in fact children deviating too far from their gender roles can become victims of gender identity disorder. Actually a good book is "Gender Identity Disorder of Childhood" put out by the American Psychiatric Association.

Nail polish is probably harmless (I have no idea) but promoting a boy to wear a dress could cause Gender Role Behavior Disturbance. A boy could normally want to wear a dress for a day or two, that is normal. But for a parent to say "gender roles are silly, you should wear a dress" could cause lots of psychological conditions which would alter his genetic gender identity.

[BrassFusion]

Actually, masculine and feminine identities are often genetic, attraction to blue for example, is something common in boys from very early ages.  Gender roles are not "stupid", in fact children deviating too far from their gender roles can become victims of gender identity disorder.  Actually a good book is "Gender Identity Disorder of Childhood"  put out by the American Psychiatric Association.

Nail polish is probably harmless (I have no idea) but promoting a boy to wear a dress could cause Gender Role Behavior Disturbance.    A boy could normally want to wear a dress for a day or two, that is normal.  But for a parent to say "gender roles are silly, you should wear a dress" could cause lots of psychological conditions which would alter his genetic gender identity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aaaaaaaand the only reason Gender Role Behavior Disturbance exists is because culturally imposed (and totally arbitrary) gender roles exist.

Deja vu to that "judging people based on sexuality" topic.

[Blackmail]

Aaaaaaaand the only reason Gender Role Behavior Disturbance exists is because culturally imposed (and totally arbitrary) gender roles exist.

Deja vu to that "judging people based on sexuality" topic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, alot of it is genetic and not culturally imposed, have you read the book I mentioned above? You really should.

[BrassFusion]

Actually, alot of it is genetic and not culturally imposed, have you read the book I mentioned above?  You really should.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So in that book, they're going to explain why favoring blue over pink and pants over skirts presents a genetic advantage for boys, while the "vice" is "versa" for girls?

I could see that being valid in the 50's... if you were a deviant, you weren't gonna get laid and make a happy nuclear family.

It's become time for us, as a society, to change those bullshit pointless rules. I've started by wearing what I want to wear when I want to wear it, and I plan to continue that sort of liberty through any children I may have- but not at the cost of their psyches. If they're not self-secure enough to take criticism from closed-minded peers, I'd discourage it.

[Blackmail]

So in that book, they're going to explain why favoring blue over pink and pants over skirts presents a genetic advantage for boys, while the "vice" is "versa" for girls?

I could see that being valid in the 50's... if you were a deviant, you weren't gonna get laid and make a happy nuclear family.

It's become time for us, as a society, to change those bullshit pointless rules. I've started by wearing what I want to wear when I want to wear it, and I plan to continue that sort of liberty through any children I may have- but not at the cost of their psyches. If they're not self-secure enough to take criticism from closed-minded peers, I'd discourage it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not a genetic advantage, whoever said that?

What there is in young boys is a natural predisposition to favor blue over pink, this transcends cultures, you'll find young boys from India doing it as well.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever if a boy wants to wear pink, however if he were to prefer blue but his parent wanted to prove some sort of point by making him wear a pink dress to get rid of some "stupid rules" that the particular person finds to be arbitrary (and there is enough evidence that it isn't arbitrary at all) then you could wind up with a child with gender confusion issues.

I believe that most homosexuals are born homosexuals, I say most because I've known some anecdotal stories about people who really aren't gay but date the same sex because of some messed up incidents in their childhood. Parents can and do cause damage to their children's sexual identities.

[BrassFusion]

It's not a genetic advantage, whoever said that?  

What there is in young boys is a natural predisposition to favor blue over pink, this transcends cultures, you'll find young boys from India doing it as well.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever if a boy wants to wear pink, however if he were to prefer blue but his parent wanted to prove some sort of point by making him wear a pink dress to get rid of some "stupid rules" that the particular person finds to be arbitrary (and there is enough evidence that it isn't arbitrary at all) then you could wind up with a child with gender confusion issues. 

I believe that most homosexuals are born homosexuals, I say most because I've known some anecdotal stories about people who really aren't gay but date the same sex because of some messed up incidents in their childhood.    Parents can and do cause damage to their children's sexual identities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it's genetically predisposed, that would be as a result of genetic advantage. In other words, there has to be some reason that boys genetically prefer the color blue; not that I concede the truth of that.

You'd have to isolate kids from birth and perform experiments on them to determine that to be true, which A. I don't advocate, and B. I don't believe has actually been done.

What you said about forcing a child to wear something they don't WANT to wear is also cruel. I don't advocate that. To me, though, it seems just as cruel to force a boy to wear pants if he doesn't want to as it is to force him to wear a skirt if he doesn't want to. Either case could cause confusion and insecurity, but the latter one is ONLY tied to "gender confusion" because our society needlessly attributes color and cut of garments to gender identity.

Off-topic, because sexuality and gender identity aren't always correlated... how do you prove that someone "is not really gay?" Wouldn't that person have to prove it to himself? How does one go about that?

Edit: I just noticed that you said that some parents cause "damage" to their children's sexual identities. Do you consider a practicing bisexual who prefers the opposite sex, but dabbles in same-sex relations, to have a "damaged" identity, in this regard?

[Brenda Starrr]

I agree that the major consideration would be whether your kid can handle taking shit because of it, because they definitely will have to.

It sucks that kids are so judgemental. That's why a lot of them love halloween so much, because the boys who always wanted to dress pretty like a girl (which doesn't always make them gay, of course) get to if they want, for a day. Stupid gender roles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's sad is it's not the kids' opinions that worry him. It's his biological father's opinion. He's not exactly willing to have an open mind. Funny how pathological liars can be.....

[BrassFusion]

What's sad is it's not the kids' opinions that worry him. It's his biological father's opinion. He's not exactly willing to have an open mind. Funny how pathological liars can be.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's so sad. It's like that time I went out to lunch with a student and his family and his dad asked him to recite a blessing, and the kid said, "I have renounced christianity!" and his dad got pissed off, so the kid recited a blessing ANYWAY. I just wanted to ninja my way under the table and bolt.

[Blackmail]

If it's genetically predisposed, that would be as a result of genetic advantage. In other words, there has to be some reason that boys genetically prefer the color blue; not that I concede the truth of that.

You'd have to isolate kids from birth and perform experiments on them to determine that to be true, which A. I don't advocate, and B. I don't believe has actually been done.

What you said about forcing a child to wear something they don't WANT to wear is also cruel. I don't advocate that. To me, though, it seems just as cruel to force a boy to wear pants if he doesn't want to as it is to force him to wear a skirt if he doesn't want to. Either case could cause confusion and insecurity, but the latter one is ONLY tied to "gender confusion" because our society needlessly attributes color and cut of garments to gender identity.

Off-topic, because sexuality and gender identity aren't always correlated... how do you prove that someone "is not really gay?" Wouldn't that person have to prove it to himself? How does one go about that?

One short anecdotal story: one girl on here said she attributed her attraction to women based on being abused by her father. This is one example. She flat oput said she would probably be hetero if not for the abuse.

Just like a gay person who sleeps with only women, inside the person is still gay, right?

Only the person themself can determine their sexual indentity

Edit: I just noticed that you said that some parents cause "damage" to their children's sexual identities. Do you consider a practicing bisexual who prefers the opposite sex, but dabbles in same-sex relations, to have a "damaged" identity, in this regard?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It depends on the person.  If the person wants to dabble in same-sex relations because they are attracted to said person (assuming that is the only reason) then I would venture to say that is probably pretty normal.

If a boy gets molested by a parent and that plays a large role in the persons sexual attraction, then it could be a case (note I said "could") be a case of damaged identity. 

There are too many variables to make a determiniation over the internet based on one sentence, and I'm not qualified to make that determination anyway.  Which is why I use words like "most" and "could".   

I would advise parents to read as much as they can on gender issues and base their decisions on their findings after getting as much information as they could. 

[Brenda Starrr]

It is sad. My kids are good kids. They're smart and talented and so funny. They're helpful to me. Sure, they're not always perfect. Not even close. But I think that it's okay to be yourself, even if it means being a boy and painting your nails. I just don't want my son to be insulted by what is supposed to be an adult.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I'll just use my own example here....

I am from a somewhat religious family.

Wearing Black Nail polish was forbidden as it was directly associated with demonism/satanism/ etc......

I was also not allowed to wear the iron cross, or pentagrams or anything like that.

I never had interest in wearing black nail polish, wearing iron crosses or pentagrams so it was never an issue with me. .....

My brothers on the otherhand, did wear black nail polish and went against my fathers will....

I was allowed to do pretty much anything else....I could dye my hair, wear makeup and wear whatever I wanted at 16.

I was never really outragious, or anything, so they never really HAD to dictate me in that sense. I was reasonable....I think.

[Gauge]

There is nothing wrong whatsoever if a boy wants to wear pink, however if he were to prefer blue but his parent wanted to prove some sort of point by making him wear a pink dress to get rid of some "stupid rules" that the particular person finds to be arbitrary (and there is enough evidence that it isn't arbitrary at all) then you could wind up with a child with gender confusion issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i dont think anyone was trying to force anything on their child to prove a point but rather open them up to the idea that they dont have to follow everyone else and might actually be able to think for themselves or choose things based on what interests them instead of doing things because of what society has said to be acceptable

I would advise parents to read as much as they can on gender issues and base their decisions on their findings after getting as much information as they could.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why cant parents just allow their children to be what they want? if my little boy wanted to wear a dress or my girl wanted to run around with short hair and boxers who am i to stand in their way.

:erm ending rant. . .hope i didnt offend

[Brenda Starrr]

Sometimes, I think that the reason that some kids are so messed up is beacuse their parents don't allow them to be themselves.

[BrassFusion]

Wearing Black Nail polish was forbidden as it was directly associated with demonism/satanism/ etc......

[...]

I was allowed to do pretty much anything else....I could dye my hair, wear makeup and wear whatever I wanted at 16. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How dark was the nail polish allowed to be before it counted as "black?" :grin I'm sorry, I got the giggles. I just think it's kind of surreal that the color itself mattered, and how difficult it could be to draw the line for some parents looking to enforce that.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I know I know....

If I asked, I would get grounded to my room....

so...I avoided asking questions at most costs....

:confused

[Brenda Starrr]

It's nail polish. People are so weird over the most ridiculous things.

[Blackmail]

i dont think anyone was trying to force anything on their child to prove a point but rather open them up to the idea that they dont have to follow everyone else and might actually be able to think for themselves or choose things based on what interests them instead of doing things because of what society has said to be acceptable

I would honestly reccomend the book to you as well, I know, I know, DGNers know more than psychologists, that's already been established, but reading more on this topic would help to understand why so many think it is more complicated than "if my son wants to wear a dress then let him wear a dress". At some point you will have to prepare your child to function in society. Even members of most countercultures probably gained valuable life experience dressing "normal" so they can function at a job or school. Just because goth's don't like "society" does not mean society is wrong and the goths are right.

why cant parents just allow their children to be what they want? if my little boy wanted to wear a dress or my girl wanted to run around with short hair and boxers who am i to stand in their way.

Well you might want to consult a child therapist about a myrid of issues, trying to understand why your boy wants to wear a dress is not a bad idea. Just accepting it as "he wants to do this, so fine" could be ignoring some real issues. Or maybe he just likes to wear dresses and if that is all it is, there probably isn't a problem, but odds are that it is more complicated than that.

[Msterbeau]

i dont think anyone was trying to force anything on their child to prove a point but rather open them up to the idea that they dont have to follow everyone else and might actually be able to think for themselves or choose things based on what interests them instead of doing things because of what society has said to be acceptable

Exactly. It's not that I'm forcing them to do anything... just making sure that preferences that have evolved since going to school (ie peer pressure) don 't force them into certain behaviors or interests just to fit in. I want my girls to be themselves... and that sometimes means I cringe at what is perfectly in their nature to do.