Michigan is screwed?

[Tyger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_2hQ5XPW4o&tracker=False

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUpO1QFMDtM&tracker=False

What do you guys think of all this?? Seems like shit is hitting the fan today... Protests and walk outs. Anyone plan on joining in??

[kat (1)]

Do they WANT a revolt on U.S soil?

Edited March 10, 2011 by kat

[Slogo]

Sounds like a return to feudalism to me

[phee]

Sounds like it..... King Snyder?

I can't believe this stuff.

[Rev.Reverence]

[prick]

Guns locked and loaded just in case. Gear ready to be thrown in the car and camper ready to be pulled. Has my time finally come?

Edited March 10, 2011 by prick

[Nightgaunt]

It's certainly worrisome. Let's see how far he gets. You can't just nullify people's votes and appoint your own overseers in a Republic and expect people to take it quietly. Oh wait...that's what happened in the Weimar Republic...

[Vater Araignee]

Just prepare for the worst and work for the best.

In my opinion working for the best will only slow down the fall.

And start preparing yourself now to have the frame of mind that will allow you to execute anyone who suggests religion as a solution. Yes politics are a religion.

[Hellion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flA9y5Lw-Fg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[candyman]

Yay my home state is going nuts! If they are blaming this on the current governor I am going to flip shit...he just got in and I STILL don't know how the teachers are not getting paid enough after all of the increases and approved bonuses I saw in the last 8 years...not to mention the horrible decline in teacher ratings that also happened in those last 8 years.

It is a union and it can suck my dick...4 unions helped destroy parts of Wisconsin and its economy so yeah...the teachers union has been under investigation so many times in the last few years they need to clarify some shit before I start to care because the allegations were not light ones...

[Lillylu29]

Sounds like we need to give him the boot.. now..

[Enishi]

Most shit doesn't faze me much nowadays, but this did. WTF??!! O.O Are they actually trying to send everything crashing down so they can declare martial law or something?!

[Vater Araignee]

Most shit doesn't faze me much nowadays, but this did. WTF??!! O.O Are they actually trying to send everything crashing down so they can declare martial law or something?!

yes, martial law allows the use of the expensive FEMA concentration camp for the critical thinker.

If you are a typical American drone then martial law wont be a concern.

Just give me my mind numbing activities and I wont care.

[torn asunder]

2 comments -

1) re: appointing someone to a town declared "in trouble" (paraphrased)... unions were a great thing when they first came around, but they've long outlived their need, imo. if unions are being stubborn and preventing concessions, for example, of a pay decrease, or higher ins. costs for their members, etc., they're a part of the problem, not the solution, to michigan's budget woes.

2) re: taxing poor/old people, then giving businesses tax breaks. wtf is wrong with you people? everyone and their brother are bitching about unemployment rates. tax incentives for businesses should mean more jobs for michigan workers. how the hell is that bad?

there's a reason it's called 'shared sacrifice' - everyone chips in on an individual basis. businesses need to be incentivized (is that a word?) in order to get our people back to work, so you don't want to take money from them. this all seems so logical to me, i don't know why everyone is getting so freaking upset.

"yeah, cut the budget everywhere! but not *this* particular thing, or *this* particular group, or, or, or..."

[Msterbeau]

2 comments -

1) re: appointing someone to a town declared "in trouble" (paraphrased)... unions were a great thing when they first came around, but they've long outlived their need, imo. if unions are being stubborn and preventing concessions, for example, of a pay decrease, or higher ins. costs for their members, etc., they're a part of the problem, not the solution, to michigan's budget woes.

2) re: taxing poor/old people, then giving businesses tax breaks. wtf is wrong with you people? everyone and their brother are bitching about unemployment rates. tax incentives for businesses should mean more jobs for michigan workers. how the hell is that bad?

there's a reason it's called 'shared sacrifice' - everyone chips in on an individual basis. businesses need to be incentivized (is that a word?) in order to get our people back to work, so you don't want to take money from them. this all seems so logical to me, i don't know why everyone is getting so freaking upset.

"yeah, cut the budget everywhere! but not *this* particular thing, or *this* particular group, or, or, or..."

Mike... Did you even watch those? If the numbers are even remotely real, there's no shared pain. Snyder is proposing to basically transfer the corporate taxes to seniors and the poor. You call that fair? That's not even the bad part of this. It's not that he's proposing to dissolve unions, it's the stuff about the financial manager and those appointed by Snyder to unilaterally boot out anyone, including elected officials, they deem necessary to "fix" the cities financial woes. They just made themselves kings.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Msterbeau

[candyman]

I don't know how people complain about corporations and then defend unions at the same time...its the same shit only one uses "defending working people" as a cover. I worked for a union for a year...twice they rallied to "help" us and it only ended in us still not getting what we wanted...but the union bosses did still enjoy all of the luxuries that they really don't need.

And Wisconsin already tried to increase taxes on those "evil" corporations when the Democrats were in power. Yeah, that one worked out REALLY well...Harley Davidson had to shut down plants and kill jobs, Miller Brewing company threatened to leave the place that it has been since its existence which would have killed alot of jobs but instead they only killed a few hundred, Mercury Marine and its super cool union moved most of the jobs to another state so it didn't have to pay its workers as much, and Oshkosh Corp which bring in MILLIONS in government projects every year for military was almost driven out of the state...

Fine, attack corporation but if you are going to risk losing all that income that keeps the state afloat and you don't seem to care about the people that are losing jobs...HOW DOES THAT HELP? HOW? Is bringing down some CEO's and a few people that abuse the system really worth that or is there another way to work things out?

[torn asunder]

Mike... Did you even watch those? If the numbers are even remotely real, there's no shared pain. Snyder is proposing to basically transfer the corporate taxes to seniors and the poor. You call that fair? That's not even the bad part of this. It's not that he's proposing to dissolve unions, it's the stuff about the financial manager and those appointed by Snyder to unilaterally boot out anyone, including elected officials, they deem necessary to "fix" the cities financial woes. They just made themselves kings.

i watched "michigan is screwed" - i can't stand michael moore, so i didn't even bother with the other.

here's the thing, if you raise taxes on corporations, it's likely they'll 1) not create any new jobs due to a lack of money to pay for said jobs, 2) leave the state for somewhere that has lower taxes. if you want to create jobs in michigan (so that people can actually earn a living here) you need tax cuts for corporations. it seems pretty simple to me.

next, you can't say, "we all have to share in the burden, except for you union people, cuz yer special!" if unions are not willing to share the sacrifice, they should be gone. i've had a certain loathing for modern unions for a long time, and as far as i'm concerned, if this is how snyder has figured a way to "get rid" of them, i'm all for that too.

finally, in order to pay for both the tax cuts to create jobs, and to cover the budget deficit, you need to raise revenues. one major way to do this is taxes. now, he's not raising taxes on the poor & the elderly, he's *not giving breaks* to them anymore, which means they're paying more similarly to what the middle class is paying. it's hard to raise property taxes on homes with declining values in a market that ripe for statewide defaults, and you don't want to raise taxes on business (as i stated earlier), so where is that money going to come from? middle class citizens in michigan are already getting nailed, so the next logical place is to reduce breaks for these two groups.

i fail to see how it's some kind of outrageous blasphemy. i think people are over-reacting and need to "man up" & work together to get our state back on track. *everyone*, not just *some* people...

[Vater Araignee]

Getting personal. Get rid of unions. I was working as a High-low driver in the early 90's.

the company I was working for had been told by Chrysler that they would have been awarded a contract because of their low bid but because of the UAW we could not work on Chrysler without being unionized. Fast forward 2 years (ya know, skipping all of our bickering about what union we want.) in comes the Teamsters. Oh no, your only warehouse workers and they only start out at $4.75 (50¢ above min). Oh no the pay grade for a warehouse High-low driver is only 50¢. KABLAM! I lost $2.85 an hour, and that isn't calculating pay loss based on the additional $15 a week the union was ganking from me.

Then there is the fact that I had been with the company since I was 15 becoming full time the week after I turned 18 and was only making 50¢ more than a little shit that got hired a month later and only because I was in a higher grade.

You dont even want to know what happened to my last job because of the United Steal (pun intended) Workers. What I have to write about them would melt a demons eyes.

Getting non personal.

The solution to unions is to have a "right to work" without being forces into paying mafia style kick backs.

The solution to corporations is to no longer consider them an entity and hold those in charge responsible for the actions of the corporation. After all if you hold the CEO and his cronies liable criminally then they are less likely to degenerate into the morally bankrupt scum we love to hate.

[Destroit]

2 comments -

1) re: appointing someone to a town declared "in trouble" (paraphrased)... unions were a great thing when they first came around, but they've long outlived their need, imo. if unions are being stubborn and preventing concessions, for example, of a pay decrease, or higher ins. costs for their members, etc., they're a part of the problem, not the solution, to michigan's budget woes.

2) re: taxing poor/old people, then giving businesses tax breaks. wtf is wrong with you people? everyone and their brother are bitching about unemployment rates. tax incentives for businesses should mean more jobs for michigan workers. how the hell is that bad?

there's a reason it's called 'shared sacrifice' - everyone chips in on an individual basis. businesses need to be incentivized (is that a word?) in order to get our people back to work, so you don't want to take money from them. this all seems so logical to me, i don't know why everyone is getting so freaking upset.

"yeah, cut the budget everywhere! but not *this* particular thing, or *this* particular group, or, or, or..."

Thank you for putting exactly what I was going to say in a very thorough and logical manner so that the only work I have to do here is come by and say: +1

Everyone only sees THEIR needs and it makes me sad... :. You have to give a little to get a lot, and so many Americans just don't get that nowadays.

Thank you for putting exactly what I was going to say in a very thorough and logical manner so that the only work I have to do here is come by and say: +1

Everyone only sees THEIR needs and it makes me sad... :. You have to give a little to get a lot, and so many Americans just don't get that nowadays.

[Destroit]

Unions are basically playground bullies and need to be stopped. I back what unions did during the time when America was younger and more honest, but now they are used as a vehicle for corruption and coercion. Miss having auto factory jobs in Detroit? Thank the unions for that. UAW backed the big three into a corner and demanded outrageously unfair amounts for worker pay. How the hell do you justify a line worker who pulls a lever all day making $80,000 a year, getting a free car every 12 months, having all medical benefits, 401k, etc...I mean don't these people know SECOND grade math? And then everyone is all up in arms when they downsize factories in Michigan, pack up, and send them to Mexico where the workers don't have some crazy notion that they're Queen-Fucking-Elizabeth and need to be making $80,000 a year pushing a damn button! If the car companies wanted to continue working and having any revenue at all without having to charge $100,000 for a damn hatchback just so they could pay for the workers, then they really had no choice. $100,000 is a big of an exaggeration, but you get the point, you can't keep costs down with such overhead like that, it's simple basic number crunching.

Makes sense to me: Axe unions, save our state! You can't even work part-time as a secretary now without a union delving into your paycheck. Trust me, I had that job last semester. Then I lost that job. Where was the union for me? Nowhere...except taking money out of my paycheck. It's worse than taxation by the government too, because every time I pay my property taxes, for instance, I look across the street and say "Wow...that's a really nice high school I helped pay for." No qualms about that from me. But unions are bullies and don't make sense in our modern times, especially because they have held so many big companies up at proverbial gun-point, that it's gotten to the point where you CAN'T get a job WITHOUT being in a union or you'll be fired. That is ludicrous, and anyone who says otherwise is either on their own selfish union-based agenda of greed, or just doesn't get something so common sense.

Unions are basically playground bullies and need to be stopped. I back what unions did during the time when America was younger and more honest, but now they are used as a vehicle for corruption and coercion. Miss having auto factory jobs in Detroit? Thank the unions for that. UAW backed the big three into a corner and demanded outrageously unfair amounts for worker pay. How the hell do you justify a line worker who pulls a lever all day making $80,000 a year, getting a free car every 12 months, having all medical benefits, 401k, etc...I mean don't these people know SECOND grade math? And then everyone is all up in arms when they downsize factories in Michigan, pack up, and send them to Mexico where the workers don't have some crazy notion that they're Queen-Fucking-Elizabeth and need to be making $80,000 a year pushing a damn button! If the car companies wanted to continue working and having any revenue at all without having to charge $100,000 for a damn hatchback just so they could pay for the workers, then they really had no choice. $100,000 is a big of an exaggeration, but you get the point, you can't keep costs down with such overhead like that, it's simple basic number crunching.

Makes sense to me: Axe unions, save our state! You can't even work part-time as a secretary now without a union delving into your paycheck. Trust me, I had that job last semester. Then I lost that job. Where was the union for me? Nowhere...except taking money out of my paycheck. It's worse than taxation by the government too, because every time I pay my property taxes, for instance, I look across the street and say "Wow...that's a really nice high school I helped pay for." No qualms about that from me. But unions are bullies and don't make sense in our modern times, especially because they have held so many big companies up at proverbial gun-point, that it's gotten to the point where you CAN'T get a job WITHOUT being in a union or you'll be fired. That is ludicrous, and anyone who says otherwise is either on their own selfish union-based agenda of greed, or just doesn't get something so very common sense.

[torn asunder]

now, i *would* like to add that i think that anyone still making over, say $100k/year (individual) in this state, should have their taxes raised, just a bit, as there is no logical argument that can be made about them *not* being able to afford it. also, all legislature (ok, politicians in general) in michigan, should voluntarily give themselves a minimum 10% pay decrease, and also absorb some of the cost for their benefits, such as health, pension, etc. until the govt. has been out of debt for a minimum of three years, just so that they can't say "we balanced the budget this year!", get their shit back, and then we find out they pushed things around in the books to screw us the next year, for example.

[the eternal]

Hey TA, when did you become conservative?

Did you turn in your Nader shirt for Palin for President?

Or perhaps Harry Browne?

[torn asunder]

Hey TA, when did you become conservative?

Did you turn in your Nader shirt for Palin for President?

Or perhaps Harry Browne?

nope, will still vote for nader every time! it's all just logic to me, i don't see any other viable ways to repair this economy presently. i'm not crazy about any of it, but i understand it, and i can't fault it right now.

[Scar My Machine]

Michigan lawmakers, ect. all can start by doing away with free health coverage that we are paying for them to have (how nice they tell us how in dept this state is but they still accept the perks this state can no longer afford)....

And secondly, since they are on average earning about half a million in just six years I'm thinking they can take a pay cut since, Michigan can no longer afford such high salaries.

Seems that if this salary cut were implemented we would be damn close to solving our budget deficit.

Question is.............are those lawmakers going to do it themselves and show the tax payers they are willing to share in the "shared sacrifice" they talk about or do we the people need to put it on the ballot and force them by voting to take salary cuts?

I'm thinking we'll have to vote their salaries down because, they haven't been willing to take pay cuts over the last umteen years so why should they do it voluntarily now?

See, I do offer a solution that is directed at both sides. Not one over the other.

now, i *would* like to add that i think that anyone still making over, say $100k/year (individual) in this state, should have their taxes raised, just a bit, as there is no logical argument that can be made about them *not* being able to afford it. also, all legislature (ok, politicians in general) in michigan, should voluntarily give themselves a minimum 10% pay decrease, and also absorb some of the cost for their benefits, such as health, pension, etc. until the govt. has been out of debt for a minimum of three years, just so that they can't say "we balanced the budget this year!", get their shit back, and then we find out they pushed things around in the books to screw us the next year, for example.

[Scar My Machine]

The "lawmakers" are thieves and criminals. They are the the ones that want to place more burden on the already overly burdened public. They are closely guarding their own pay raises (which they vote for how convenient, eh) they closely guard their perks and benefits. They are now voting to take away peoples rights.

You can piss and moan about YOUR opinion of unions (you have that right) but what current actions amount to are the removal of freedoms and rights.

America can no longer afford these kind of lawmakers. They are over paid and are against the voters (i.e. the general public).