Not Sure What To Do - Close up DGN?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I kinda have to agree with knocker here..

And will respectfully decline posting my opinions on here, for similar reasons as knocker.

From a certain perspective hell "I" (me troy) agree with knocker. lol. "I don't agree with how everything is done around here." (I dont make all the decisions, or even half of them) Not that it matters, no matter what rules you put in place (or not) somone is going to disagree. Every couple days in one direction or the other, I hear exact opposite opinions about the exact same issue. Its frustrating, but no way to 'fix' it, unfortunately. Since everyone has their own (often conflicting) ideas.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

From a certain perspective hell "I" (me troy) agree with knocker. lol. "I don't agree with how everything is done around here." (I dont make all the decisions, or even half of them) Not that it matters, no matter what rules you put in place (or not) somone is going to disagree. Every couple days in one direction or the other, I hear exact opposite opinions about the exact same issue. Its frustrating, but no way to 'fix' it, unfortunately. Since everyone has their own (often conflicting) ideas.

Forgive me, but I'm not exactly understanding your point here. (Not saying I disagree, just saying a few parts are making me go DERP) The first part, from that certain perspective, if you find yourself seeing the same logical conclusion as knocker, you're the owner of the board, if you find whatever issues to be a good idea, why not make it so? Why not keep a standard? I'll try to explain this the best I can without sounding too abrasive, as I just want to point out my understanding of things so far, where you can reply with what I may be right on, and where I may be dead wrong on. So here we go!

Your big complaint seems to be that there's people that are on both sides of the fence of any issue, bitching about the other side. For example, I'll pick on the play nice rule. Now the rule it's self and how it's formed I can actually agree on, it's not micromanaged, and is more of a principal than a rule that depends on one's own common sense. Now here's the pro's and advantages of such a rule. The interpretation of the individual. I'll admit I sometimes have problems, like in a previous post I got in trouble for in the race thread, to me racism is racism, and even now I honestly don't understand how my picture was wrong compared to other pictures, much like the play nice rule assuming people have common sense, I assumed since racial pictures were posted, that it was acceptable humor in the impression that everyone new it was just for laughs, and not anything serious. No harm no fowl right? well apparently I was wrong and that wasn't the case. However I just got a warning so it's not a big issue. But it did make me notice the flaws in the system a bit more clearly. Now I don't agree with micromanaging and having a bunch of complex rules to cover every single silly little hypothetical situation that could possibly happen, but rather I get the impression of a very very different can of worms. The interpretation of the policy by people. Some people, for example, may get offended by a post, and scream your policy to give the ruse of legitimacy to their complaint, rather than coming off as what they really are, a sour asshole that cant stand a different point of view. Not to sound rude, but I stopped posting for so long because I do feel this place's authority figures try to keep the environment as a kiddie kindergarten environment. There are times when your policy is enforced WAY TOO much. Then there's those that can't take a joke, and will always complain it's never enough. Those are the POSTERS that ruin the fun for everyone else. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's like a business, a fucked up crack business as an analogy, yeah crack is bad kids, we all know that. But even though the crack dealer might be the bad guy, his existence comes to be because of a demand. I would politely tell these thin skinned complainers about gaia online, that forum might be more up their alley. Now yes, I agree there's one or two moderators which I feel have no place being a moderator, but that is more of a personal opinion so I won't call names out or say why lest you want to take it to PM (for obvious reasons) It seems that there is no authority other than this policy, and the enforcement of it seen fit by each individual. Like with leading troops, some complainers you just have to identify the ones that aren't having any constructive criticism, and just complain because they're a sour asshole. It's ok to tell these people to shut the fuck up, and or fuck off. Now trying to see myself in your shoes here, it may look greater, i don't know, I don't see how many people complain, and about what. But people will more likely voice what pisses them off rather than what they're ok with... eh shit i think i'm fumbling words, analogy time lol...

*certain random post* - gets ten viewers, two of which didn't like it, and thus sent a complaint, while the other eight are anywhere from neutral, to enjoy it. You'll only hear the opinion of the two though. They complain, squeaky wheel gets the oil, and what was a post that was enjoyable by most now is removed, the two rejoice, while the other 8 are like wtf. The reaction to the post by moderators just cut their own nose off because two said the nose was ugly (stupid right?, not really, shit happens all the time everywhere in groups) The 8 that didn't complain, probably won't complain, just decide to stop posting since the small group of soccer mom nazi's (who have no fucking business being on a goth forum IMO) are reduced to starting generic politically correct threads such as, polls like, what cupcake are you? And in a sense, everything that made dgn a very colorful place worth going to, is gone, and all that's left are the old myspacelike chain letter bulletins that ruined myspace. I could be way off or dead wrong here, and if so, rather than taking offence and reporting this post, debunk me, i'm open to different points, that's how you improve a flawed system. My old signature, people complained, but rather than reporting it and getting me in trouble, they were like hey, that was funny as shit at first, but now it's just huge, vulgar, and annoying. I'm like, oh snap i see your logic! ok changed! And now, I have this signature. That's how things should be handled, posters should grow a backbone and talk to the person who "offended" them directly rather than making an even bigger stink and reporting it needlessly, because more often than not, should they follow this, they would see that it was more of a misunderstanding than anything.

I really don't think you follow up on your own board that well either. Knocker may have said you don't promote or go to events, but it's more than that. If you're not going out, then you should be on here keeping things on one standard. But it looks like you're not even doing that because you only post on occasion, and everything's gone to the four winds. I say this because in your absences, it's left to the moderators who have (what I would assume have) equal power of authority. They're all the chief chilly cheese fry managers. This is when things go down hill. Now, one moderator's threads they run have one enforced standard of the policy, while another thread topic under another moderator has a completely different interpretation and enforcement of the policy. That has to stop, that's ruining the board from the inside. This is your creation, I understand it takes a lot of work, it's a big project, that's just the nature of the beast. If you're not up for it, your your health isn't up for it, if you truely care about dgn, you'll step up to the plate despite your health, or hand your authority over to someone you trust to run the board, and step into the background for a while to focus on your health and get better.

This may be a bit disorganized in my writing, if there's anything I didn't fully explain let me know. I'm not doing this to be a dick, I'm giving my honest opinion with as much reasons as I feel would give you a piece to chew on if you're really looking for what's messing with dgn. I guess in conclusion, it's more of an internal problem than a help promoting problem. Getting a chick is one thing, I can get all the chicks i want to come into my back yard, keeping them there is the trick. You gotta be consistent with your milkshakes, it's your back yard, your milkshakes, rock that shit like you own it, because at the end of the day, IT IS YOUR DGN, YOU MAKE THE RULES.

Now why are all the boys coming to my yard instead of the girls for my milkshakes... wtf?

Edited March 21, 2012 by Epic_Fail_Guy

[Tyger]

^^^

I totally agree. (I didn't want to "Quote" it because its such a hugs paragraph.) Especially about the whole 2 people disagree while 8 others are neutral/like it. It's the same with memoirs and gossip. You'll always hear/ have some reaction to the negative aspects of things, but never the good. That's why you always see violence and negativity on the news. It's what sells. But you rarely hear from the good. Or even if there are good things about something, the negative are going to be a bigger issue.

I don't remember seeing your last signature because for a while I had them all blocked. But if you realized it or never thought about it but still changed it, I don't see how your could have been penalized for it...

Some people are a too "square", but there are some people on this board that are a bit too out there as well. Its one of the reasons why I like it here (when there is stuff going on). But its being human. We are all unique.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

^^^

I totally agree. (I didn't want to "Quote" it because its such a hugs paragraph.) Especially about the whole 2 people disagree while 8 others are neutral/like it. It's the same with memoirs and gossip. You'll always hear/ have some reaction to the negative aspects of things, but never the good. That's why you always see violence and negativity on the news. It's what sells. But you rarely hear from the good. Or even if there are good things about something, the negative are going to be a bigger issue.

I don't remember seeing your last signature because for a while I had them all blocked. But if you realized it or never thought about it but still changed it, I don't see how your could have been penalized for it...

Some people are a too "square", but there are some people on this board that are a bit too out there as well. Its one of the reasons why I like it here (when there is stuff going on). But its being human. We are all unique.

Not that it matters anymore, I just brought up the two personal experiences as examples, I wasn't trying to bitch at all! And no I was never reported for my signature lol, but i was told by users (indirectly, by saying someone's sig is getting old) and for ONCE in my life, I snagged a hint rather than having to be told point blank that it was mine (oh yes, i partied hardy for catching a hint too lol) The only thing i was reported for was a picture I posted in a thread that had a few "racist" joke pictures in it. Both are really, too petty for me to even worry about, and I was trying to stress that I didn't care about the aftermath personally, but just using them as examples to help describe my point. I'm not the most organized writer so maybe I didn't stress that enough. Either way though I didn't see my getting in trouble as anything to bitch about then, and feel that way even more since it's all ancient history now anyway. Thanks for your support though!

[Tyger]

Not that it matters anymore, I just brought up the two personal experiences as examples, I wasn't trying to bitch at all! And no I was never reported for my signature lol, but i was told by users (indirectly, by saying someone's sig is getting old) and for ONCE in my life, I snagged a hint rather than having to be told point blank that it was mine (oh yes, i partied hardy for catching a hint too lol) The only thing i was reported for was a picture I posted in a thread that had a few "racist" joke pictures in it. Both are really, too petty for me to even worry about, and I was trying to stress that I didn't care about the aftermath personally, but just using them as examples to help describe my point. I'm not the most organized writer so maybe I didn't stress that enough. Either way though I didn't see my getting in trouble as anything to bitch about then, and feel that way even more since it's all ancient history now anyway. Thanks for your support though!

My comment went all just about your situations, but was bout negative posts in general.

[Class-Punk]

Facebook was around all through our peak period of activity (600+ posts a day a few years ago) and was around during our most recent peak of 300+ posts a day less than a year ago, its really not much of an issue. The peaks always coincide with promotion and on-board activity of a few key posters and the lows (like now) relate to the lack of activity from a few key people (not always the same people, but usually me being one of them). There have always been online distractions, its just about promotion and activity.

I disagree that social networking sites, Facebook mainly, doesn't affect the traffic of this or other forums; but I've been mute on the topic because I didn't see a point in any kind of long rebuttal, and just now decided to say my peace on it.

---

To echo what I think's been said above, I think that this board would have the most active members if the rules were made much more lenient. I've never had a problem with mods though I can agree that they would have different perspectives on the rules; I mostly found some people disagreeable when I first came here as a teenager, which I now know was just them jealous of my age. There would be cons to having lenient rules, and some people wouldn't like it. But looking back to when there was more people, like for instance in 2008.. there was always multiple debates going on, sometimes turning into arguments for better or worse. Using Occam's Razor its logical to presume that lenient rules are the answer to procuring high-traffic.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Coffeenated

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

My comment went all just about your situations, but was bout negative posts in general.

ha oops and/or DERP!!, i did EXACTLY what we were talking about by focusing only on the negatives! My appologies, yes your post was awesome, but one part looked like you slightly misunderstood a small part, and was merely trying to clear that up.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Thanks for taking the time to type out your thoughts, I do, take constructive criticism fairly well weither or not I disagree. Not always, but for the most part I'm old hat at this, (was a manager for years, DGN by contrast is far less "in your face" than real-life management).

, if you find yourself seeing the same logical conclusion as knocker, you're the owner of the board,

That was more tongue - in cheek / sardonic. In some sense I agree, but having thought things through, i have to assume a thousand hours for every hour somone else has, the "overall" conclsuion I dont agree with but , in some ways, at some times, I dont agree with whats done, but I also rarely ever let anything that I'd call "important to me personally" slide (if i know about it, the board was, until recently unmanageable by one person, just some lesser things that I dont really have a strong opinion about one way or another. There are several key people that I respect, that may have a different opinon to mine, and unless i feel they should be overturned , I back their decisions. You cant run an organization second guessing your "managers" all the time.

Your big complaint seems to be that there's people that are on both sides of the fence of any issue, bitching about the other side. For example, I'll pick on the play nice rule.

I honestly don't understand how my picture was wrong compared to other pictures, much like the play nice rule assuming people have common sense

Common sense to one person is totally out of line to another, its a very wide spread, its VERY difficult to juggle. Myself personaly, In my personal life im MEGA politically incorrect, and I think many people are WAYYYYYYYY too sensitive. But DGN is meant to be "welcoming" , racist stuff is hard and its hard call as to what should be left on and what shouldn't, and I'm (on DGN) in favor of making the most people comfortable, despite my personal prefernce on content, which , the "politically incorrect" types, such as myself, are in the (vast) minority we (the more abrasive types) are just more vocal, publicly. (again a judgment call on the part of me or the mods/me.)

Belive it or not over the years I've tended to defend (actually just straight up many times) many of the more abrasive things, but in the end its more important to keep the peace than it is to make a case for this or that. I DO want the place to be open as possible, its just not possible to have it both ways both completely open and completely welcoming, its a juggling act.

There are times when your policy is enforced WAY TOO much. Then there's those that can't take a joke,

I agree, but see above.

*certain random post* - gets ten viewers, two of which didn't like it, and thus sent a complaint, while the other eight are anywhere from neutral, to enjoy it. You'll only hear the opinion of the two though. They complain, squeaky wheel gets the oil, and what was a post that was enjoyable by most now is removed, the two rejoice, while the other 8 are like wtf.

I really don't think you follow up on your own board that well either.

Totally true 100% The board has NOT gotten the attention it needs, I'm sick a lot, and i've been re-hospitalied 4 times, much of id due (not all, I've got tons of real life stuff that i push myself too much on) to overdoing it with DGN and "going out" too much, which , I finally decided int he last year or so that I need to put my health first. I'd hoped by now I'd have mods to basicly "do my job" , but we never quite got to that point sadly. (nocker is just flat wrong on the promotion front I promoted his night more than any other in recent memory just as a fairly irelvant aside, even sick as I was/am) And my health is not so hot still, and my energy level is even worse, so the "lack of me" around here is a product of that, but I am busting my ass to get better, its just not visible, unfortunately as no one really knows my situation fully.

This may be a bit disorganized in my writing, YOU MAKE THE RULES.

No you did a good job.

True I make the rules, and there has been a ton of thought put into them, but the <enforcment> of the rules is a collaborative effort even when I do have a ton of energy. And, generally things usually are done the way I want, just not always. Which, is the same for any orginization that takes seriously its belief in not being despotic.

In case it got glossed over the initial reason for this post is moot for a month or two anyway due to donations from people that actually do want to see it continue.

[DJ Nocker]

TL:DR I stand by what I said.

[Deka1184]

I think if worst comes to worst and the group is closed, A facebook and/or google+ group should be created to sustain the community for the time being. They really aren't that bad at all, and would certainly lead to a huge increase in activity (especially facebook).

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I think if worst comes to worst and the group is closed, A facebook and/or google+ group should be created to sustain the community for the time being. They really aren't that bad at all, and would certainly lead to a huge increase in activity (especially facebook).

There already are sort of "unofficial" groups but they are disorganized and inactive (just like all the email groups / forums before DGN, which was one of the reasons i started this place, was to have a non-dead (hah) discussion forum , but due to my own inactivity in the last 6 months or so DGN has become pretty slow =/ . I probably should close this thread since we did end up getting a few donations to keep us afloat for at least another month or two. I said it a few times in the topic but its hard to read all the posts and they ramble all over the place on all different subjects.

[TronRP]

Wow Dude...definitely do not envy you, but may I just say, YAY!!! for not closing the Board

As I stated in a PM last month:

"Sent 11 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

In my personal feelings, you, the Mods, the Street Team, and many of the regular members of DGN fall into the category of Rock Stars to me. I mean, you guys are freakin Awesome.

It just makes me smile being on this site...maybe that's why I'm here all the time...

But I must admit, with every post I make on here, I am becoming more confident in my online life as I am in my real world life and I have only been a member since July...DGN should be the new therapy for real world emotional drama...the turnaround is remarkable... "

[Corvus]

troy...consider yourself PMed

[Class-Punk]

Punk's not dead, its blasting through my earphones, appealing to my apathy.

Here's to DGN being around for another year.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Class-Punk

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Now if only I got the hugs and insta-friends that "rock stars" get heh.