Do you want total freedom of speech

[Saint Germain]

I ask you: Do you want total freedom of speech? If necessary, do you want a freedom more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine?

Wikileaks,

- precursor for a new "French revolution"

- a boaster

- betrayal of democracy

What is your opinion?

www.nytimes.com

www.guardian.co.uk

www.lemonde.fr

www.spiegel.de

www.elpais.com

[phee]

I think freedom of information is good almost all the time, with the exception of putting human life in danger, or becoming severely imbalanced. There is a difference in getting information out there for the good of the whole, and getting it out there to damage....

[DJ Nocker]

I think freedom of information is good almost all the time, with the exception of putting human life in danger, or becoming severely imbalanced. There is a difference in getting information out there for the good of the whole, and getting it out there to damage....

In terms of freedom is concerned, I dont think its relevant as to the means.

[phenom]

If we are talking about Wikileaks, what they are doing is totally wrong and a danger to world peace.

But in other regards of freedom of speech, I believe people should be able to say what they want, when they want.

I also believe the Internet should be left alone, unmonitored, unregulated... but that is just a dream.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Just because you can does not mean you should.

[phee]

Just because you can does not mean you should.

I agree 100%

[prick]

Just because you can does not mean you should.

Well put.

[darknight1]

I necessarily wouldn't say it's wrong or a danger to world peace. Wikileaks has targeted other countries and multinational corporations as well. With Assange's current dilemma over the alleged "rape" charges he's wanted for in Sweden, I'm compelled to believe that this is nothing more then a concerted effort by Western leaders to destroy his credibility. What his creation, Wikileaks, does is shed more light on our government's true actions, as it does the same for other nations worldwide and multinational public corporations. It's an attempt to hold each and every nation in question accountable for it's illegal actions. The same can be argued for countless companies which also engage in unethical and illegal things. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what will be outlined in the release of all of these internal documents by Bank of America soon.

If we are talking about Wikileaks, what they are doing is totally wrong and a danger to world peace.

But in other regards of freedom of speech, I believe people should be able to say what they want, when they want.

I also believe the Internet should be left alone, unmonitored, unregulated... but that is just a dream.

[Nightgaunt]

I necessarily wouldn't say it's wrong or a danger to world peace. Wikileaks has targeted other countries and multinational corporations as well. With Assange's current dilemma over the alleged "rape" charges he's wanted for in Sweden, I'm compelled to believe that this is nothing more then a concerted effort by Western leaders to destroy his credibility. What his creation, Wikileaks, does is shed more light on our government's true actions, as it does the same for other nations worldwide and multinational public corporations. It's an attempt to hold each and every nation in question accountable for it's illegal actions. The same can be argued for countless companies which also engage in unethical and illegal things. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what will be outlined in the release of all of these internal documents by Bank of America soon.

+1

When we complain about government intruding on our personal privacy, we're told, "If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to worry about." I like to think of this as government getting a bit of a taste of its own medicine. This is not going to destabilize the world. The most it's going to do is open people's eyes a little wider to the monster wearing the Uncle Sam mask.

If they can tear their attention away from Justin Bieber for five minutes, that is.

[darknight1]

+1

When we complain about government intruding on our personal privacy, we're told, "If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to worry about." I like to think of this as government getting a bit of a taste of its own medicine. This is not going to destabilize the world. The most it's going to do is open people's eyes a little wider to the monster wearing the Uncle Sam mask.

If they can tear their attention away from Justin Bieber for five minutes, that is.

That's going to be difficult to get people in this country to stop paying more attention to whoever the latest American Idol is, who won "Dancing With The Stars" (the term stars is questionable, given most of their picks on there are B, C or D list celebrities), or anything else that the media in this country touts as "news worthy". Come on, who gives a rat's ass about Brad Pitt's newest girlfriend? I'm absolutely sick of some of the comments over Wikileaks releasing all of these "diplomatic" cables too. For instance, former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania openly called for those involved with Wikileaks to be tried for treason and executed. Really? I thought we had laws protecting the whistleblowers involved with Wikileaks? The exact above sentiments as stated by Mr. Santorum have been echoed by more congressmen then I can count as well.

[darknight1]

And on another thought, I am absolutely sick of people gushing over everything Sarah Palin has to say with respect to current affairs. She's already proved how uninformed she is of current affairs, particularly in our country's foreign policy, our economic situation, the "war on terror", and countless other issues I could name. I find it incredible that people would actually CONSIDER voting for this woman in a presidential election. If she ever was to theoretically get elected to that office, all hell would truly break loose. For some reason, I don't see Obama lasting beyond 2012 given how pissed Palin's racist neoconservative and "anti-big government" supporters are...at least when it comes down to the fact that a smart African-American occupies the White House.

[phee]

And on another thought, I am absolutely sick of people gushing over everything Sarah Palin has to say with respect to current affairs. She's already proved how uninformed she is of current affairs, particularly in our country's foreign policy, our economic situation, the "war on terror", and countless other issues I could name. I find it incredible that people would actually CONSIDER voting for this woman in a presidential election. If she ever was to theoretically get elected to that office, all hell would truly break loose. For some reason, I don't see Obama lasting beyond 2012 given how pissed Palin's racist neoconservative and "anti-big government" supporters are...at least when it comes down to the fact that a smart African-American occupies the White House.

+25

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

And on another thought, I am absolutely sick of people gushing over everything Sarah Palin has to say with respect to current affairs. She's already proved how uninformed she is of current affairs, particularly in our country's foreign policy, our economic situation, the "war on terror", and countless other issues I could name. I find it incredible that people would actually CONSIDER voting for this woman in a presidential election. If she ever was to theoretically get elected to that office, all hell would truly break loose. For some reason, I don't see Obama lasting beyond 2012 given how pissed Palin's racist neoconservative and "anti-big government" supporters are...at least when it comes down to the fact that a smart African-American occupies the White House.

How exactly has she proven it? Most of the "stupid" things people qoute here as saying, such as "I can see Russia from my house", were in fact said by Tina Fay on Saturday night live.

So, I'm a "racist neoconservative". Nice to know.

People dislike Obama not because of the color of his skin... it's because he is an inexperianced, ineffective egotistical dolt who has no idea what he is doing. It could also be because he himself has said the he dislikes the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

[bean]

And on another thought, I am absolutely sick of people gushing over everything Sarah Palin has to say with respect to current affairs. She's already proved how uninformed she is of current affairs, particularly in our country's foreign policy, our economic situation, the "war on terror", and countless other issues I could name. I find it incredible that people would actually CONSIDER voting for this woman in a presidential election. If she ever was to theoretically get elected to that office, all hell would truly break loose. For some reason, I don't see Obama lasting beyond 2012 given how pissed Palin's racist neoconservative and "anti-big government" supporters are...at least when it comes down to the fact that a smart African-American occupies the White House.

[darknight1]

I will digress a bit more: just look at her website, which conveniently is titled "SarahPAC". http://www.sarahpac.com/

I'll probably catch hell for posting it, but I am absolutely terrified at the thought of this woman even getting near the Presidency. I'll call it as I see it - she and her ilk represent a threat to whatever Constitutional rights we still actually have in the post 9/11 era. Just look at her Facebook page - every time she complains of something, the exact response you see from her supporters is nothing but hate. Hatred towards the GLBT community, hatred of Muslims (or anyone who's not Christian for that matter), hatred of left leaning liberals, hatred of actual progressive individuals or groups, hatred towards anything, really. This woman is the tip of the iceberg. If people think President Andrew Johnson, Woodrow Wilson and Warren Harding (a President who reportedly held KKK ceremonies and meetings in the White House) were destructive, they should seriously contemplate what this woman is capable of. Biblical theocracy anyone?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It has PAC in the title because it's the website for her Political Action Commity.

Can you point out some of this "hate".

[darknight1]

How exactly has she proven it? Most of the "stupid" things people qoute here as saying, such as "I can see Russia from my house", were in fact said by Tina Fay on Saturday night live.

So, I'm a "racist neoconservative". Nice to know.

People dislike Obama not because of the color of his skin... it's because he is an inexperianced, ineffective egotistical dolt who has no idea what he is doing. It could also be because he himself has said the he dislikes the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

Gaf, she's proven her inability to even handle this country's affairs simply from the countless ridiculous ideas she proposes. Ever watch her in an interview? That's more than enough to tell me everything I need to know. Body language, whether we like it or not, says a lot about a person. And how is Obama an inexperienced, ineffective egotistical dolt who happens to "dislike" the Bill of Rights and the Constitution? He was left with a mess that 8 years of the highly corrupt and deceitful Bush Administration, in all honesty, created. Even Reagan pales in comparison to the mess that unfolded under "W". For one, with his administrator, he took no actions whatsoever to hold corporations accountable under our laws. Laws that were crafted with the idea, the intention really, to put an end to the very things that led our country into the Depression years. He launched an illegal and unnecessary invasion and occupation of a sovereign country, while deliberately lying to the American public and Congress that this country in question had "weapons of mass destruction". Bull. I find it extremely funny that immediately after this country was illegally invaded and unnecessarily occupied, huge multination corporations such as Kellogg and Halliburton (all of which are heavily involved in the oil industry) set up shop within it. Of course, I'm referring to the Iraq "War". And going forward from there...people bitch about Obama taking 20 some days for vacation over the course of nearly two years is nothing compared to what W did within his first few months in office. Really, almost 65 days just to screw around on his ranch? And what about all of that overt right wing Christian propaganda and talk originating from within the White House and the Pentagon? "God told me to invade this country, so I did". "This is a war against Islam?" The second quote came from a man who was a general under Bush's thumb, for god's sake! And how about that gigantic bailout of all of his banking buddies on Wall Street? They make billions of dollars a year, lose a small fraction of it, and then go crying because they want to make up for that small loss? No. As far as "disliking" the Constitution and Bill of Rights? I disagree, sir. Hotly disagree. Nobody clearly disliked the Bill of Rights or the Constitution more than W and his criminal cronies. With the passage of the Patriot Act, that shredded the majority of our rights to free speech and free press more than any single act in this country's 231 year history. Arresting "terror suspects" and holding them indefinitely while subjecting them to torture and not even so much as charging them with a crime? That violates the 8th Amendment, the 5th Amendment, and the 6th Amendment, considering these men are repeatedly denied access to legal representation, something which a lot of other foreign nationals within our country are still entitled to even if they're not US citizens (funny how persons of arab lineage or other nationalities from the Middle East are denied all of that). Or how about the Valerie Plame case? Wasn't that a stab at free speech with respect to her husband calling out W on everything he said? As far as I'm concerned, and know, Obama, by nature, is left with a country in tatters. I think he's tried doing everything as best as he can within the confines of the Constitution (remember, he was a constitutional law professor not even a decade or so ago), and at least isn't ripping too many people apart over this whole Wikileaks debacle.

[darknight1]

It's not that hard to turn what starts out as a PAC into a presidential campaign.

[darknight1]

Wonderful, I've gotten myself heated over yet another political debate. This happens way too much.

[phee]

So, I'm a "racist neoconservative". Nice to know.

No you aren't Gaf... But the party that you affiliate yourself with is.

[darknight1]

Exactly, phee. And the sad part about it is that the Republican party, at least historically, used to be more open with regard to racial issues. And it was for the small guys too.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Gaf, she's proven her inability to even handle this country's affairs simply from the countless ridiculous ideas she proposes. Ever watch her in an interview? That's more than enough to tell me everything I need to know. Body language, whether we like it or not, says a lot about a person. And how is Obama an inexperienced, ineffective egotistical dolt who happens to "dislike" the Bill of Rights and the Constitution? He was left with a mess that 8 years of the highly corrupt and deceitful Bush Administration, in all honesty, created. Even Reagan pales in comparison to the mess that unfolded under "W". For one, with his administrator, he took no actions whatsoever to hold corporations accountable under our laws. Laws that were crafted with the idea, the intention really, to put an end to the very things that led our country into the Depression years. He launched an illegal and unnecessary invasion and occupation of a sovereign country, while deliberately lying to the American public and Congress that this country in question had "weapons of mass destruction". Bull. I find it extremely funny that immediately after this country was illegally invaded and unnecessarily occupied, huge multination corporations such as Kellogg and Halliburton (all of which are heavily involved in the oil industry) set up shop within it. Of course, I'm referring to the Iraq "War". And going forward from there...people bitch about Obama taking 20 some days for vacation over the course of nearly two years is nothing compared to what W did within his first few months in office. Really, almost 65 days just to screw around on his ranch? And what about all of that overt right wing Christian propaganda and talk originating from within the White House and the Pentagon? "God told me to invade this country, so I did". "This is a war against Islam?" The second quote came from a man who was a general under Bush's thumb, for god's sake! And how about that gigantic bailout of all of his banking buddies on Wall Street? They make billions of dollars a year, lose a small fraction of it, and then go crying because they want to make up for that small loss? No. As far as "disliking" the Constitution and Bill of Rights? I disagree, sir. Hotly disagree. Nobody clearly disliked the Bill of Rights or the Constitution more than W and his criminal cronies. With the passage of the Patriot Act, that shredded the majority of our rights to free speech and free press more than any single act in this country's 231 year history. Arresting "terror suspects" and holding them indefinitely while subjecting them to torture and not even so much as charging them with a crime? That violates the 8th Amendment, the 5th Amendment, and the 6th Amendment, considering these men are repeatedly denied access to legal representation, something which a lot of other foreign nationals within our country are still entitled to even if they're not US citizens (funny how persons of arab lineage or other nationalities from the Middle East are denied all of that). Or how about the Valerie Plame case? Wasn't that a stab at free speech with respect to her husband calling out W on everything he said? As far as I'm concerned, and know, Obama, by nature, is left with a country in tatters. I think he's tried doing everything as best as he can within the confines of the Constitution (remember, he was a constitutional law professor not even a decade or so ago), and at least isn't ripping too many people apart over this whole Wikileaks debacle.

I'm sorry... I don't mean to be offensive... but you really need to read more about what Obama has actualy done and said.

[Nightgaunt]

I'm sorry... I don't mean to be offensive... but you really need to read more about what Obama has actualy done and said.

Agreed. While I'm no fan of W, Obama doesn't appear much different. He's gone back on just about every campaign promise he made (typical, business-as-usual politician) and he's spent more money than every president from George Washington to George W combined. He supported the "banker bailout". He has demonstrated time and again his disdain for the Constitution, starting with his college thesis. He has stated over and over his belief in wealth redistribution. He claims to be "anti-Wall Street", but the majority of his campaign funding came from Wall Street. He's continued the policies of George W., rather than doing away with them.

Bottom line here, as in all things political (at least at the Federal level), is that the President exists only to do the bidding of the Federal Reserve and other powerful private interests. If you really want to understand what's going on, take a look at where the money ends up.

And Palin? I think that if she's a serious contender for the Presidency, then we've already lost any chance of restoring the U.S. to its former status as a Representative Republic. Obama will have set the stage, and she'll bring about the end.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

back to the topic at hand..

I'm all for these "leaks" until we get our own privacies back. Those who took away our privacy should not be above their own laws.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Epic_Fail_Guy

[JohnKnow70]

And on another thought, I am absolutely sick of people gushing over everything Sarah Palin has to say with respect to current affairs. She's already proved how uninformed she is of current affairs, particularly in our country's foreign policy, our economic situation, the "war on terror", and countless other issues I could name. I find it incredible that people would actually CONSIDER voting for this woman in a presidential election. If she ever was to theoretically get elected to that office, all hell would truly break loose. For some reason, I don't see Obama lasting beyond 2012 given how pissed Palin's racist neoconservative and "anti-big government" supporters are...at least when it comes down to the fact that a smart African-American occupies the White House.

I am not sure where this rant came from but I agree with you, Sarah Palin is a joke and a stupid human being.

However the "smart african american" has an equally moronic person as his vice president.

And you don't have to be racist to oppose Obama...look up economist Thomas Sowell (black economist who rails against Obama on a weekly basis), Deroy Murdock (black libertarian and tax policy expert who speaks out against Obama), Colin Powell (who once supported Obama but now says has lost his way), Michael Dyson (black left wing NPR host who says Obama is acting like a Republican) and countless others. There are legit and intellectual reasons to oppose President Obama's policies from both the left and the right.