How Can This Country Ever Move Forward When...

[Scar My Machine]

There are misinformed people that are under the belief that their wrong information is fact?

Now, this thread is not aimed at anyone here nor anything that anyone here has posted recently, or not so recently or even in the distant past (how's that for a disclaimer?).

This thread is inspired by a post I just read on yahoo and it reads as follows...

********** - Wed Nov 3, 2010 10:34am PDT

Bush a war criminal eh? So, should all these Demon-crats be charged and convicted of war crimes?

WWI - Woodrow Wilson - Democrat

WWII - Franklin D. Roosevelt - Democrat

Dropping Atomic Bombs on innocent people in Japan - Harry Truman - Democrat

Cold War - Harry Truman - Democrat

Korean War - Harry Truman - Democrat

Bay of Pigs debacle - John Kennedy - Democrat

Got America involved in Vietnam - Lyndon Johnson - Democrat

Persian Gulf War II - Bill Clinton - Democrat

Looks like Demon-crats have a lot of answering to do, and we can see who the real war criminals are. They all should be convicted, even the ones who are dead.

(I removed the user name to protect the ignorant)

Can you spot the mistakes in his posting? If not, I will gladly post them.

[DJ Nocker]

There are misinformed people that are under the belief that their wrong information is fact?

Now, this thread is not aimed at anyone here nor anything that anyone here has posted recently, or not so recently or even in the distant past (how's that for a disclaimer?).

This thread is inspired by a post I just read on yahoo and it reads as follows...

(I removed the user name to protect the ignorant)

Can you spot the mistakes in his posting? If not, I will gladly post them.

Yea! Obama isnt on the list of fail demoncrats...lmao

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Well.. Wilson should have been shot as a traitor for creating the Federal Reserve but thats another kettle of fish.

but as to actual mistakes...

Eisenhower ® was the first President to send troops into Vietnam but only as advisors to the French... Kennedy (D) was the first President to send any real number of troops into Vietnam.

The first Gulf War was UN action... Bush Sr. sent those troops in but not until the UN sanctioned it and pulled them out when he was told to by the UN.

btw... I have major problems with people who take issue with dropping the a-bomb on Japan. They attacked us because we opposed the whole sale slaughter of innocents in China. Why do people always forget that Japan was murdering every man woman and child in China? 20 Million Civillians slaughtered in China by the Japanese. Biological experiments on civilians the Nazi's thought were extreme...

Edited November 3, 2010 by Gaf The Horse With Tears

[DJ Nocker]

Why do people always forget that Japan was murdering every man woman and child in China? 20 Million Civillians slaughtered in China by the Japanese. Biological experiments on civilians the Nazi's thought were extreme...

Yay Unit 731.

[Scar My Machine]

but as to actual mistakes...

Eisenhower ® was the first President to send troops into Vietnam but only as advisors to the French... Kennedy (D) was the first President to send any real number of troops into Vietnam.

The first Gulf War was UN action... Bush Sr. sent those troops in but not until the UN sanctioned it and pulled them out when he was told to by the UN.

btw... I have major problems with people who take issue with dropping the a-bomb on Japan. They attacked us because we opposed the whole sale slaughter of innocents in China. Why do people always forget that Japan was murdering every man woman and child in China? 20 Million Civillians slaughtered in China by the Japanese. Biological experiments on civilians the Nazi's thought were extreme...

In the United States, only the U.S. Congress may declare war on a country.

The only country against which the United States has declared war more than once is Germany, against which the United States has declared war twice (though a case could be made for Hungary as a successor state to Austria-Hungary).

In World War II, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on the previous day, Germany and Italy, led respectively by Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini, declared war on the United States, and the U.S. Congress responded in kind.

And with Eisenhower and Kennedy, neither case was a declaration of war, they simply deployed troops. Eisenhower's actions caused more troubles for U.S. troops than did Kennedy's. The bay of pig incident was an unsuccessful attempt by a CIA-trained force of Cuban exiles to invade southern Cuba, with support from US government armed forces, to overthrow the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. Thankfully, Russia didn't see this as a full on threat to them thus avoiding an all out war with the Soviet Union.

And your remark about the A-bombs being dropped on Japan, I know I don't feel bad about it. They attacked us without warning. Declared war on us after the attack took place, and then had the audacity to think they could bring us down and refuse to surrender when we asked them several times.

IMO - we didn't drop those bombs soon enough. I had a grandfather that fought the empire of Japan over the Pacific for two years, served under Admiral McCain and completed 36 missions of combat and I'm very grateful/thankful he did what he did (which was fight for our freedom and way of life).

Anyway - my original point to this thread was to point out how clueless some Americans really are. Do the schools even teach history anymore? Or is it a case of moron DNA?

I can't tell anymore. *lol* Seems, the older I get, the more idiotic comments I find online from people claiming to know anything about our countries history.

Is it that difficult to look things up before posting?

The whole thing makes my head spin sometimes. /rant

[Scar My Machine]

And a side thought while on the subject of our country going to war this last time around (which is driving America so beyond debt it's not even funny) - when GWB and his gun - ho conservative supporters used the excuse that Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction" (the most lame excuse a former Harvard student could dream up) to that I say, I suspect that the former Soviet Union had/has weapons of mass destruction but I didn't see any previous U.S. president trying to invade Russian soil to remove their leader from power.

We need to end our current engagement of war - bring our troops home - start putting that money we save from no longer fighting back into out nation to help solve our economic woes faster and start to heal as a nation.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Scar My Machine

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

And a side thought while on the subject of our country going to war this last time around (which is driving America so beyond debt it's not even funny) - when GWB and his gun - ho conservative supporters used the excuse that Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction" (the most lame excuse a former Harvard student could dream up) to that I say, I suspect that the former Soviet Union had/has weapons of mass destruction but I didn't see any previous U.S. president trying to invade Russian soil to remove their leader from power.

We need to end our current engagement of war - bring our troops home - start putting that money we save from no longer fighting back into out nation to help solve our economic woes faster and start to heal as a nation.

Just my 2 cents.

Just wanted to point out... G.W. had support from both sides if the aisle when he asked Congress to let him go to War. He also had a U.N. ratified international treaty and 17 broken U.N. resolutions giving him legal authority to go to war. I always find it kind of funny when people try to paint G.W. as some kind of war criminal for starting the Iraq war when from an international stand point it was most likely the most legal war we have ever been in.

[creatureofthenyte]

Just wanted to point out... G.W. had support from both sides if the aisle when he asked Congress to let him go to War. He also had a U.N. ratified international treaty and 17 broken U.N. resolutions giving him legal authority to go to war. I always find it kind of funny when people try to paint G.W. as some kind of war criminal for starting the Iraq war when from an international stand point it was most likely the most legal war we have ever been in.

Wikileaks leaked out military documents showing that Saddam Did in fact have WMD's.

[Rev.Reverence]

Well.. Wilson should have been shot as a traitor for creating the Federal Reserve but thats another kettle of fish.

but as to actual mistakes...

Eisenhower ® was the first President to send troops into Vietnam but only as advisors to the French... Kennedy (D) was the first President to send any real number of troops into Vietnam.

The first Gulf War was UN action... Bush Sr. sent those troops in but not until the UN sanctioned it and pulled them out when he was told to by the UN.

btw... I have major problems with people who take issue with dropping the a-bomb on Japan. They attacked us because we opposed the whole sale slaughter of innocents in China. Why do people always forget that Japan was murdering every man woman and child in China? 20 Million Civillians slaughtered in China by the Japanese. Biological experiments on civilians the Nazi's thought were extreme...

[Destroit]

Yea! Obama isnt on the list of fail demoncrats...lmao

You beat me to it! WTF!

You beat me to it! WTF!

[Destroit]

btw... I have major problems with people who take issue with dropping the a-bomb on Japan. They attacked us because we opposed the whole sale slaughter of innocents in China. Why do people always forget that Japan was murdering every man woman and child in China? 20 Million Civillians slaughtered in China by the Japanese. Biological experiments on civilians the Nazi's thought were extreme...

My late grandfather served in Patton's 3rd army. Let's just say I knew all about WWII and the Holocaust at an age where most kids were still focused on Disney bullshit. I always wondered why he would say this, because I felt bad that we bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima, but he'd say "Don't ever feel bad for the Japanese. Feel bad for some of the Germans, but NOT the Japanese..."

I didn't get why until I got a little older and did more research on my own . Much of the shit that they did to human beings made the Nazi party look like shit Dennis the Menace did. There was also a great difference in the fact that a DECENT amount of German citizens detested what Nazis were doing whereas it seemed as though Japanese citizens were backing up the horrors that their military was causing 100%.

My late grandfather served in Patton's 3rd army. Let's just say I knew all about WWII and the Holocaust at an age where most kids were still focused on Disney bullshit. I always wondered why he would say this, because I felt bad that we bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima, but he'd say "Don't ever feel bad for the Japanese. Feel bad for some of the Germans, but NOT the Japanese..."

I didn't get why until I got a little older and did more research on my own . Much of the shit that they did to human beings made the Nazi party look like shit Dennis the Menace did. There was also a great difference in the fact that a DECENT amount of German citizens detested what Nazis were doing whereas it seemed as though Japanese citizens were backing up the horrors that their military was causing 100%.

[Destroit]

Just wanted to point out... G.W. had support from both sides if the aisle when he asked Congress to let him go to War. He also had a U.N. ratified international treaty and 17 broken U.N. resolutions giving him legal authority to go to war. I always find it kind of funny when people try to paint G.W. as some kind of war criminal for starting the Iraq war when from an international stand point it was most likely the most legal war we have ever been in.

Iraq did EVERYTHING wrong that it could. That would be like standing out in the street declaring you sell heroin and then bitching that it's "unfair" when a narcotics officer decides to search you. Don't bluff (or seem like you're bluffing) or America will call you on it.

Iraq did EVERYTHING wrong that it could. That would be like standing out in the street declaring you sell heroin and then bitching that it's "unfair" when a narcotics officer decides to search you. Don't bluff (or seem like you're bluffing) or America will call you on it.

[candyman]

Why would you start an argument like this? You assume everyone has the same education level as you do?

Ok so since that is the way you think I can call you a complete idiot if you can't follow along with the thesis that I made for college where I built my engine and went over the dyno curves and all of the airflow data.

You can call people stupid of ignorant or whatever the hell you want to call them...but is it their fault or is it because of people like YOU. People who would much rather tear the living shit out the the person for messing something up rather than taking them aside to find out just why the think this way...cuz you know they either know better and are hateful or maybe they were raised in the wrong situation and need some help from others which you are obviously too smart to give them.

I am sorry but I have seen too many threads like this to react any other way. People have their moments...especially when you are online with emotions...so ignore them or teach them but don't add fuel to the fire.

[phee]

It sounds like an interesting discussion could come out of this (in a different thread perhaps) that discusses the moral aspects of WW2.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

My late grandfather served in Patton's 3rd army. Let's just say I knew all about WWII and the Holocaust at an age where most kids were still focused on Disney bullshit. I always wondered why he would say this, because I felt bad that we bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima, but he'd say "Don't ever feel bad for the Japanese. Feel bad for some of the Germans, but NOT the Japanese..."

I didn't get why until I got a little older and did more research on my own . Much of the shit that they did to human beings made the Nazi party look like shit Dennis the Menace did. There was also a great difference in the fact that a DECENT amount of German citizens detested what Nazis were doing whereas it seemed as though Japanese citizens were backing up the horrors that their military was causing 100%.

Do you know what unit he was in? My grand father served under Patton in the 3rd from North Africa to the end of the war.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

no longer fighting back

I know what you meant in the original setance... but those words...

There are many of us who are not willing to sit back and wait for them to kill us. Fighting back is the right course.

[Destroit]

Do you know what unit he was in? My grand father served under Patton in the 3rd from North Africa to the end of the war.

No, not the specific unit. I do know that he was in Patton's 3rd army from North Africa to the end of the war also. He had an above average IQ and so they had him be a medic, which he explained, most likely saved his life due to not being on the front lines (many of his buddies, well MOST of his buddies he left with did not come back). I have yet to read his memoirs, he died when I was in high school but it would still be painful for me to read. His name was James Smith. I will have to ask my grammy more about it.

Wouldn't that just be nuts if you're grampa and mine were in the same unit at the same time? Clearly they are both badasses, I can tell you that. But the fact that he smuggled a grenade back with him, which to this day is in my gramma's attic should say enough about the guy . I was the one who discovered it up there awhile ago when I went through his old military stuff, closed the trunk it was in, and never looked in there again.

No, not the specific unit. I do know that he was in Patton's 3rd army from North Africa to the end of the war also. He had an above average IQ and so they had him be a medic, which he explained, most likely saved his life due to not being on the front lines (many of his buddies, well MOST of his buddies he left with did not come back). I have yet to read his memoirs, he died when I was in high school but it would still be painful for me to read. His name was James Smith. I will have to ask my grammy more about it.

Wouldn't that just be nuts if you're grampa and mine were in the same unit at the same time? Clearly they are both badasses, I can tell you that. But the fact that he smuggled a grenade back with him, which to this day is in my gramma's attic should say enough about the guy . I was the one who discovered it up there awhile ago when I went through his old military stuff, closed the trunk it was in, and never looked in there again.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

That would be too cool. My grand father was a tank commander... Daralton Bissett. Trying to remember what division he was in... I know he was at D-Day and the Battle of the Budlge. I soppose I can call him this weekend and ask him some questions... I'm the only person (other than the men he served with) that he has ever talked to about the War.

on a side note.. some years ago I was going through the basement of a house a lived in. I found bundle of old news papers... it was every issue of Stars and Stripes from the beggining of the war to the end. I donated most of them to the local VFW post... but there was duplicates... and I still have those at my grandpa's. The coolest moment of my life was reading one and realizing I ws reading an inspiring story of valor... about my Grand Father.

[Scar My Machine]

Why would you start an argument like this? You assume everyone has the same education level as you do?

Ok so since that is the way you think I can call you a complete idiot if you can't follow along with the thesis that I made for college where I built my engine and went over the dyno curves and all of the airflow data.

This makes me laugh that you got upset with me for doing something similar to what you would/are doing. *lamo!*

And, I'm not even upset that you are doing it to me here.

My line of logic being applied in my original post is this, I just feel that all people that have gone to high school should have a better grasp of our nations history and when they spew out incorrect facts they need to be corrected.

I was posting it here just for a forum to discuss it and I don't feel I was being harsh on that person and in fact, I hide their identity.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

This makes me laugh that you got upset with me for doing something similar to what you would/are doing. *lamo!*

And, I'm not even upset that you are doing it to me here.

My line of logic being applied in my original post is this, I just feel that all people that have gone to high school should have a better grasp of our nations history and when they spew out incorrect facts they need to be corrected.

I was posting it here just for a forum to discuss it and I don't feel I was being harsh on that person and in fact, I hide their identity.

I think he just misinterpreted your point. I even had to read what you said over a 2nd time because at first glance it looked like a terrible attempt at trolling, but even though it wasn't, it didn't take long for trolls to take this over into a massive argument of emotions and people running off on tangent points that are loosely related to your first point at best.

Honestly, I don't see it as Dem's Vs Reps. I think any organization defeats it's own purpose just on the soul principal when you get people in a group, they become fucking stupid. Tea party, dems, reps, any organized religion, any nation, we just get stupid with the sheeple mob mentality.

I've been trying really hard to stay out of this thread since every time I see a political thread, everyone's on their soap box, with a fully charged megaphone in hand, while wearing the thickest set of ear plugs out there.

And as long as people refuse to listen to one another and squabble over who's right and who's the fucking retard, nothing gets accomplished to right the wrongs we see in our government. Fucks sake, even our government it's self cant get it's head out of it's own ass with the dems and reps getting in sissy fights with eachother like a couple of 5 year olds in kindergarden fighting over the swing set shouting "MY TURN MY TURN!" Before long, no one is swinging, and they're both fighting with eachother for the swing.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

EDIT - noticed a pesky little comma in a place where it shouldn't be.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Epic_Fail_Guy

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Wikileaks leaked out military documents showing that Saddam Did in fact have WMD's.

If you claim it, link it. I've searched and through the years, not once have I ever seen any hard evidence to them having any WMD's worth going to war over.

[candyman]

This makes me laugh that you got upset with me for doing something similar to what you would/are doing. *lamo!*

And, I'm not even upset that you are doing it to me here.

My line of logic being applied in my original post is this, I just feel that all people that have gone to high school should have a better grasp of our nations history and when they spew out incorrect facts they need to be corrected.

I was posting it here just for a forum to discuss it and I don't feel I was being harsh on that person and in fact, I hide their identity.

I am not saying it like you are being abrasive or anything...just that you should already know the answer.

I will only say one thing on here...not because I am trying to be a cock.

Have you looked at the conditions that exist in high schools today? They mess with things to make them "safe" and "helpful" for kids...which is about as good as arming someone with a dull pencil and sending them to attack a large bear. The kids are getting horrible educations...its been going on for a while so in turn the results are horrible. We are getting waves of fresh recruits that can really only tell you what is healthy for you and how bad the environment is...other that that they can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground.

[candyman]

If you claim it, link it. I've searched and through the years, not once have I ever seen any hard evidence to them having any WMD's worth going to war over.

I am not going to say you are wrong but...tell me what he did with all of the WMD's he had and used against the Kurds and Iran? It was a pretty nasty arsenal and from the shitty trials that didn't work I hardly think that he just turned around and changed his tune...

Just saying...shitbags don't end their shitbaggery it usually just get worse...

I mean...the man pretty much got away with a big attempt at genocide in my eyes and nobody balked except for Canada...

[Scar My Machine]

Have you looked at the conditions that exist in high schools today? They mess with things to make them "safe" and "helpful" for kids...which is about as good as arming someone with a dull pencil and sending them to attack a large bear. The kids are getting horrible educations...its been going on for a while so in turn the results are horrible. We are getting waves of fresh recruits that can really only tell you what is healthy for you and how bad the environment is...other that that they can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground.

The education system sucks yes but that's only part of the problem, getting parents involved in their child's education is another part of it. Among other issues.

[Scar My Machine]

I mean...the man pretty much got away with a big attempt at genocide in my eyes and nobody balked except for Canada...

Speaking of genocide, does anyone know where we put the American native tribes?

I've been looking for them and it seems as if they were almost wiped out by white settlers during the 19th century. (that comment wasn't directed at candyman)