2012

[predaking]

predictions, predictions, predictions....just from the current state of affiars and pace of industrial consupmtion I think we'll seem (as just a personal hunch):

a) the complete financial collapse of the United States - which causes it to no longer be a key player on the world stage for the first time in history, an impotent presence at best, while the rest of the nations square off for control.

b) our general deterioration into chaos and sticks and stones for a time being here in the US, because as a peopl we have not been truly tested nationally in a very long time and lack the generational fortitude to cope well.

c) global devestation by way of famine and disease, with old diseases rearing their heads again as super bugs that are impervious to our antibiotics and begin to wipe many people out, plague style

d) global unity by way of desperation spearheaded by "someone' who comes up with "the cure"

I could see the first 3 I dunno about the last one, that could also cause a lot of fighting for control of said "cure"

At any rate tho, I think things will get a lot worse before it gets better

[boshy]

Naw, Nostradamus is just as much of a phony as all of the other so called "psychics" out there. He made very vague verses regarding the "future", which is exactly what the cooky old psychic lady down the block with the hairy mole and spooooky crystal ball does.

I mean, you make a VERY vague guess, extremely vague, about the future and someplace down the line it's bound to "happen". OR people will string together event that are so called matched up with those preditions, just to try and make them true.

It's like reading your horoscope and being like "oh..okay yeah, I guess this did sorta happen today..."

Also, a site with the title nostradamusonline.com (notice the boldness of the .com) literally can say whatever they damn well please because it's a .com site. A .edu site or a .gov site cannot, they're generally credible.

I could go on and create a .com page saying that giant monster tomatoes from Mars are going to attack New York City in the year 2012 because I saw a vision in a bowl of alphabet soup, and there's not shit anyone could do or say about it.

Nostradamus is more full of shit than the Mayans really, and you don't really notice any of them kicking around anymore, do you? At least not as "Mayans".

Furthermore, if the Mayans were such this massively advanced race/ethnicity/whatever, then why oh why were they able to be conquered so easily? They weren't passive at ALL, so you can't blame that.

Also, after I posted I realized something. Yes, he made "predictions" about WWI, WWII, 9/11, and "the end"...

So I ask you this, since there have been massively bloody and horrible events such as war, the plague, the red death (i.e. TB), etc, why didn't he predict any of those?

ALSO...last but not least, almost everyone has taken Nostradamus' "predictions" throughout the ages and thought "oh NOOO! The end is near!" because people are so self-centered EVERY SINGLE GENERATION thinks that the world will end in their time and have had "credible reasons" such as visions to back that up.

The funny part is that I don't think the world will end. Period. At least not until the sun explodes and engulfs the earth in some 100,000 years or more.

The sun is a yellow dwarf star and will not explode. We have about 14,000,000,000 years until that happens . (We've only been around for about 4,500,000,000 years)

[Destroit]

The sun is a yellow dwarf star and will not explode. We have about 14,000,000,000 years until that happens . (We've only been around for about 4,500,000,000 years)

Psssshhhhht...yeah yeah, whichever

The point being, if the sun does go "kablooey" and it causes the demise of the earth, we all won't be around to see it.

Unless of course you're of the school of reincarnation.

[Destroit]

Who exactly conquered the Mayans? I asked this because the 9 or 10 books I have on their culture never say anything like that. Mostly they talk about the huge mystery as to where they went. They seem to have just kinda disappeared into the woodwork during the 8th and 9th century's.

Nostradamus didn't predict the Red Death because it's a fictional decease created by the mind of Poe. Maybe you were thinking of the Black Death (The Plague of which you speak)... which he had no need to predict because his main job in life was treating victims of it. He did predict WW1 and WW2...

As for the Sun... It will never explode. It does not have enough mass. In about 5-6 BILLION years it will expand into a Red Giant and destroy all the inner planets. There is a small mathematical chance that Earth will survive... mostly. Computer models predict gravitational tides will push Earth away from the Sun as it expands. Ofcourse... the natural life cycle of the Sun will burn all life off Earth in about 900million years and boil off all the water in about a Billion.

My whole point being... when you don't know any actual facts about something you should not act like you have the right answer. It makes you look bad.

A)...they always taught me in school that the Native Americans south of the border, including in South America, were conquered by either the Spanish or Portugese (sp?). This obviously is evident in the fact that most of the countries down there speak a dialect of either Spanish or Portugese and most modern latino people are a mix of the Native Americans that were there first and the Spanish/Portugese that took over the place. This includes the Mayans, Incan, and Aztec indians, and probably other tribes but I don't have enough time in my life to just sit around the internet trolling for facts just to win debates on messageboards.

Secondly...if you knew about Poe's time you would know that his mother and 14 y.o. fiancee/cousin, Virginia Clemm, both died of the Red Death (which is why he created stories about it). Doesn't take much imagination to figure out what the disease is scientifically called, since it makes you have a tendency of hacking up blood out of your lungs. Modern scientists know this as Mycobactium tuburculosis. Sound familiar now? I definately don't think Poe created TB, that's a bit silly.

Sorry, I used the wrong wording with the sun thing. Explode wasn't the correct terminology. Either way, picking that apart is basically splitting hairs: You know what I meant. The sun is supposed to expand some how and destroy the Earth, that was my point.

[Destroit]

Just got this from Wikipedia (I realize that it's not a fully accredited site) when I searched for "mayan":

"The Maya peoples never disappeared, neither at the time of the Classic period decline nor with the arrival of the Spanish conquistadores and the subsequent Spanish colonization of the Americas."

After all of the books I've read about them, all of the history classes I've been through, and all of the documentaries I've seen TLC, History, Discovery, etc, it goes by what I've been taught from those sources, which is why I posted it.

I've learned that they integraded with the new incoming Spaniards, or they were killed by them in battle.

The only reason I'm doubting my information is because I'm a biologist and deal with science, not some historian. So if you can prove me wrong on that, feel free to.

[Der Nister]

I read about this and seen some tele coverage about the subject but what everyone that talks about it fails to mention is the race of people that made this calander are no longer around and......maybe the reason the calander stops at the year 2012 is because that's as far as they got it finished.

In other words - the world isn't going to end that year. They obviously packed up and left for whatever reason and it was just another unfinished project. Look at all the ruins and things they left behind.

I'm not worried nor do I take this seriously.

[Destroit]

I read about this and seen some tele coverage about the subject but what everyone that talks about it fails to mention is the race of people that made this calander are no longer around and......maybe the reason the calander stops at the year 2012 is because that's as far as they got it finished.

In other words - the world isn't going to end that year. They obviously packed up and left for whatever reason and it was just another unfinished project. Look at all the ruins and things they left behind.

I'm not worried nor do I take this seriously.

Pretty much almost exactly what I said.

[Destroit]

Oh, and something else I was told about the Mayans is that much of their "disappearance" or demise rather had to do was contributed to the notion that agriculturally they over farmed, cut down too many trees, and depleated the soil to the point where nothing would grow.

Not sure if that's 100% accurate, but if it is, what a totally advanced civilization THAT musta been

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

*sigh*

TB. Yes, I have heard of it. I've even been immunized for it. It has never been called The Red Death. Find me anything of any repute that says otherwise.

The Mayan culture fell apart in the 8th and 9th century's. They walked away from their city's and life's into the jungle. No one knows why, though many speculate. By the time the Spaniards got here they lived in small villages scattered throughout Mexico's Yucatan. They were a pale shadow of what they had once been.

A scientist should appreciate accuracy in information. A position based on fallacy is itself, a fallacy.

[predaking]

the mayan calander was just 1 example I gave in my first post, as interesting as the debate over there whereabouts and completion of the calander is dont just focus on that. There are other things that have made the same prediction, IMO the most intresting is the Web-Bot project.

[sable_twilight]

What's interesting is that the 2011 to 2012 happens to coincide with the peak for Solar Cycle 24. Peak times can cause quite a bit of electrical disruption as sun spots, solar flairs and coronal mass ejections flair up. Some scientists are predicting that the upcoming peak will be the strongest we've since 1958, when the energy bombardment hitting the Earth was so strong, that Northern Lights were sighted three times in Mexico.

During the 1989 peak:

"a power surge triggered by solar energy damaged transformers of the Hydro-Quebec power system, leaving 6 million people in Canada and the northeast United States without power for more than nine hours. The event also knocked satellites out of orbit and disrupted radio communications." - Britt

Now, in 1958, and even in 1989, the industrialized world was not nearly as dependant on computer and satellite technology as we are today. Additionally, major metropolitan areas today use a lot more "just in time product shipping," which rely heavy on the stability of our communications infrastructure. What it boils down to is that there not nearly as much food and other necessary supplies on hand as there was even a decade ago.

Now, it does not take some belief in the ability to predict the future to see the possibilities of what could happen here. Now, admittedly, we did weather the Northeast Blackout of 2003 fairly well, but that was simply a loss of electrical power. It did not knock out the communications system. Phone and cellular networks, while overloaded, still remained operational.

Just something to think about.

As for comments about astrology, I some personal theories about that, in that it's most like currents or treads than actual predictors, but that for another post at another time.

Works quoted:

Britt, Robert Roy. What is a Solar Maximum and What Happens? 1 Feb. 2008. 31 Jan. 2000 < http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/solar_max_sidebar_000131.html>

Other sites of possible interest:

NASA - Is a New Solar Cycle Beginning?

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/14dec_excitement.htm

NASA - Scientists Predict Big Solar Cycle

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/21dec_cycle24.htm

NASA - Solar Storm Warning

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/10mar_stormwarning.htm

NOAA - Solar Cycle Progression

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SolarCycle/

San Francisco Chronicle - Huge solar storms could zap Earth, scientists warn

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/07/MNGAFHJJL91.DTL

WakeUp Singaporeans! - Solar peak expected in 2011-2012

http://simontay78.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/solar-peak-expected-in-2011-2012/

edit: fixed links

[jadnifer]

Why should we worry if the world is going to end anyways? You really think that talking about it, worrying about it, is really going to do anything?

Not so much.

We are all going to die, so who cares? Some die young, some die old. If the world wants to end, how is that any different than just dying naturally? When you die, is that not your world comming to an end?

I'm so totally with you on that, Candy.

[jadnifer]

I have the thought of the Mayans just couldnt or didnt have the knowledge to finish the calendar and 2012 is where they left off. Some that have posted agree with me on this.

As far as Nostradomis is concerned, he said the world was supposed to end in 2000, now they are saying that he said it's supposed to end in 2012? Come on people, when did he say that its really supposed to end? If for example he said that its supposed to end in 2012, maybe thats as far into the future as he could see, so he thought that had to mean the end of the world.

Just something to think about.

[predaking]

I have the thought of the Mayans just couldnt or didnt have the knowledge to finish the calendar and 2012 is where they left off. Some that have posted agree with me on this.

As far as Nostradomis is concerned, he said the world was supposed to end in 2000, now they are saying that he said it's supposed to end in 2012? Come on people, when did he say that its really supposed to end? If for example he said that its supposed to end in 2012, maybe thats as far into the future as he could see, so he thought that had to mean the end of the world.

Just something to think about.

if you are talking about the Y2K thing, he didnt predict that IIRC. but even if he did, had it not been for all the computer techs working to fix it befor it happened then things would have gone bad. hell some small countries in asia shut down because of it.

but still prediction or not, the current global events arent headed in a good direction and if tempers flare enough then shit will hit the fan. i'm sure candy, odims, para bellum have had first hand experence of what i mean.

now all the mystic shit aside, how long do you think it will be before war breaks out? i am in no way saying that one is comming (so please dont get it twisted) but the conditions are right for one there is just that 1 huge spark left to set it off. i do think that what ever happens depends on how the next prez decides to handle bush's clusterfuck.

[jadnifer]

Offtopic

We just gotta make sure that we get a President in there that knows what he is doing and tries to get this war dealt with as soon as humanly possible.

Carry on back on topic.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and get the Chinese to stop valueing the Yen so high. and actually get trade agreements with China that favor us at least a little bit. and get all of China's spys out of the country... ofcourse that would mean deporing the Clintons.. but hey... I can accept that.

[phee]

and get the Chinese to stop valueing the Yen so high. and actually get trade agreements with China that favor us at least a little bit. and get all of China's spys out of the country... ofcourse that would mean deporing the Clintons.. but hey... I can accept that.

Say goodbye to Pfunk???? never

[predaking]

and get the Chinese to stop valueing the Yen so high. and actually get trade agreements with China that favor us at least a little bit. and get all of China's spys out of the country... ofcourse that would mean deporing the Clintons.. but hey... I can accept that.

yen is japanese

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

right, make that yaun.

[sable_twilight]

and get the Chinese to stop valueing the Yen so high. and actually get trade agreements with China that favor us at least a little bit. and get all of China's spys out of the country... ofcourse that would mean deporing the Clintons.. but hey... I can accept that.

Wait. You want the Chinese to ignore our economic turmoil and the economic exploitation of their workers by US corporations for the production of our overpriced luxuries? For what purpose? So that our corporate CEOs and government leaders can continue their economical irresponsibility?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Let’s not call our leadership to task, but instead blame China for taking steps to ensure their economic stability when our nation tanks.

Face it. It is our people who have f-ed up royally, and have been doing so for the past three decades - from excessive compensation and severance packages, to the creation of the World Bank which required developing nations to gut their own in house social service programs in order to receive aid, to the creation of "Free Trade" zones which allow corporations to ship jobs to other countries, avoid paying import taxes and ignore worker protection laws in those countries and here. And what is most insidious is that it's not one side or the other doing this. While I can't stand Bush and the entirety of the Neo-Conservative movement, I cannot place the blame solely on them, though I do think they've done the lions share of the damage, over the years.

Anyway, that's my political economic rant for the thread. Going back to my little corner here.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Excuse me? WTF are you talking about? When did I say anything like that?

I want China to stop breaking International Finance laws. They have been over valuing their currency and it's one of the major factors in the dropping value of the US Dollar.

I want China to honor trade agreements that they have signed and bring our trade deficit with them to a more reasonable level.

I want China to enforce international copy write laws rather than encourage Chinese company's to pirate US products.

I want to capture and expel all the Chinese spys... I'm not sure if you are aware of just how many times we have caught China with their hand in the cookie jar where we keep our military secrets. While the rock star Bill Clinton was getting that blow job the Chinese stole the plans for every ICBM and cruise missile we had at the time along with the plans for most of our nuclear weapons. Somehow, that isn't front page worthy. Did you know they just caught 4 more people spying the Chinese just this last week? China paid for Bill Clinton's campaigns. There have been three scandals with Hillary's campaign... and all of them involve Chinese nationals.

I never said I don;t blame us for our problems. I only said I blame China for the problems they ahve caused and are causing.

[hunhee]

Offtopic

We just gotta make sure that we get a President in there that knows what he is doing and tries to get this war dealt with as soon as humanly possible.

Carry on back on topic.

Wow.. you're asking for the stars to blink out the moon. Sorry Jad, I love ya, but that's way WAY more than one person can do, no one person (not one that will lead the US) would ever have the power or authority to do something as drastic as it would take for our country to get enlign with what would be good for us. We are heading toward critical mass (predicted or not).

Your "we need to get a president in there that knows what he's doing" well I don't know about you, but it takes a while after I start a new job to figure out the ins and outs, can you imagine running a whole country? It takes longer than four years for someone to affect change, it's not going to happen overnight, and by that time, guess what? we're going to revote, and get some other jackass who doesn't know what they're doing into the white house. That's how it's always been. We never know if a president is any good in his term, sometimes even in his lifetime. We never really know it till 20-30 years later, and by that time, we can't get the poor bastard back.

I feel sorry for whoever becomes our next president. Our country is in a state that it will take a miracle for things to clear up, and I don't know about you, but my magic wand stopped working when I cross that threshold into adulthood. *sighs*

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Exactly.

Think about Nixon. People for the most part think of him as a crook and lair... but if you look at what he did and the long term affects there of... and leave partisan politics out of the equation... he is one of the greatest Presidents we ever had.

He did everything he promised to do during his election campaign.

He created the EPA and other wide sweeping enviromental laws.

He ended Vietnam.

He ended the Draft.

He eased tensions with the U.S.S.R. and signed the first treaty to limit nuclear weapons.

He opened the doors to trade with China (though currerntly this is biting us in the ass)

[predaking]

Wow.. you're asking for the stars to blink out the moon. Sorry Jad, I love ya, but that's way WAY more than one person can do, no one person (not one that will lead the US) would ever have the power or authority to do something as drastic as it would take for our country to get enlign with what would be good for us. We are heading toward critical mass (predicted or not).

Your "we need to get a president in there that knows what he's doing" well I don't know about you, but it takes a while after I start a new job to figure out the ins and outs, can you imagine running a whole country? It takes longer than four years for someone to affect change, it's not going to happen overnight, and by that time, guess what? we're going to revote, and get some other jackass who doesn't know what they're doing into the white house. That's how it's always been. We never know if a president is any good in his term, sometimes even in his lifetime. We never really know it till 20-30 years later, and by that time, we can't get the poor bastard back.

I feel sorry for whoever becomes our next president. Our country is in a state that it will take a miracle for things to clear up, and I don't know about you, but my magic wand stopped working when I cross that threshold into adulthood. *sighs*

good, im not the only one who sees this

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

2012 EH? That doesn't sound that unrealistic really. By that time our population will have nearly doubled itself. That in itself is a major problem, especially if we're supposedly running out of natural resources. I'm sure we all know better than this, but the point is we're going to get jerked around at the gas pumps even more so by then. I'd say between the failing economy and education standards, there will be plenty of retards out there with guns and knives so fed up with the way things are they're willing to fight like maniacs.

Consider this for a moment if for nothing better than entertainment (if you don't believe in Gods or Spirits).

In 1994 public interest finally developed in the internet which was primarily used for military and academics at the time. I thought it was amazing that I could retrieve so much information from one source. Rather than govern this information though, they decided to keep everything open and free. That's fine by me, but no regulations were set. Porn was up by the millions of pages, and the internet was reduced to a meat market of undersexed losers who could in no other way find sex as well as people who just thought it might add to their sex lives.

Well, that's great. I'm glad we all have wonderful sex lives now, and who cares about all the co dependency issues that have flourished throughout our women and a greater percentage of our men as well. Maybe if we continue to fuck like this, it won't make much difference that Section 666 was also added to the Social Security Act in 1994 making it impossible for population control to get out of hand without everyone having a number assigned to their name. So basically, all children and adults are now FORCED to be numbers.

Well, happy fucking day. I'm sure when the dude comes all handshakes, smiles, and full of empty promises, we'll vote him right into world leadership.

In the meantime, lets use some aerial satellite photos and photos of people's homes who were targeted by income bracket by Google when releasing street view. I mean really now that we can see middle income homes, children in front yards, personal property, windows, doors, access points, entry points, we have the ability to plot major crimes against any living person. I mean really this is what Google's functionality has been reduced to since it's search engine has been broken for at least 5 years and is getting worse every day.

So yeah. I'm sure a lot of you don't mind at all that your shit is out there for every body to see. Screw the satellite photos, now we have cars doing drive by's with 360 degree cameras coming to a neighborhood near you. Why don't you take a look at your suburban Detroit houses, and see if you made the street view map. If you did I'm sure you'll see immediately why this CAN SURELY NOT BE A VIOLATION OF PRIVACY AND CONTRARY TO THE IDEA OF NATIONAL SECURITY. I MEAN REALLY WHAT'S THAT? THE PATRIOT ACT WHAT? OH THATS JUST FOR CIVILIANS WHO AREN'T CRIMINALS.

So yeah. Let's keep talking about conspiracy theory and mysticism BECAUSE THAT'S REAL AND THAT WILL GET ANYTHING DONE. LETS JUST KEEP TALKING. I'M SURE WE'LL GET A FIRST HAND PERSPECTIVE OF HOW SHITTY THINGS CAN REALLY GET VERY SOON DESPITE OUR RELIGIOUS AND MORAL VIEWPOINTS.