Thank God for all my dopest rhymes!

[Paper Hearts]

The way we deal with what is right and what is wrong is that WE as people who have power in our own right, either as industry people (lots of DJ's here), parents and teachers, or the almighty consumer --- say it's not right.  The police are not the only ones who hold people responsible for their actions.

If you believe there is no responsiblity (however much researchers say there are extremely strong connections between exposure to media and behavior), then you don't act against these artists in any way.  If you believe it is wrong, your everyday actions (such as your purchasing choices and your words) will impact the machine behind it all.

There are many artists here as well.  This is an issue that many of us have faced head-on.  Do you or I have responsibility for what we produce as artists?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but people aren't born with a scroll sticking out of thier ass' that says that having an album sleeve with voluptious women on it is wrong. If you feel it is wrong and you have the means, you can try educating people. Otherwise, I feel that not listening to music you find offensive is a fair measure to take. I do speak against it...but I don't pretend that people have a responisbility to act against something that they do not feel is wrong. It's not a question of responsibility at all.

[Blackmail]

Art imitates life.  Idiots imitate art.

Art shapes the culture to a degree.  But to censor art is indeed a greater crime and is a mark of a fascist government.  Once we start doing that then everything turns into 1984 and we start arresting people for "crimethink".

Freedom of espression is so important the founding fathers of the U.S. put it in the first amendment right next to the freedom of speach.

It's not our fault that people in the urban culture these days are too stupid to actually make a positive artistic influince on society.

As far as the nazi art goes, I like it.  I don't like what they stood for as a political party but I do like the artwork and the fashion (I always throw that in when a thread mentions german art).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nazi-ism is against the law in Germany. Making racist comments is against the law in much of Europe.

I don't consider these Countries to be Fascist or Orwellian.

[Scary Guy]

As far as that goes, I used to play (and still do on occasion) music I don't like at the club all the time. I might not agree with the content but if it gets people onto the floor then so be it. I'm not being paid to impose my moral judgement on the crowd. In your scenereo it depends on how many homosexuals are a part of the clientel that night. But that's like any music speaking out against a group of people or religion. The Electric Hellfire Club comes to mind, among others.

However a good example is Marilyn Manson (but reversed). I like his musical content but don't necessarily like him as a person. Call that one a guilty pleasure I guess. Although it doesn't directly apply because the imaginary band you mentioned sinmantyx I probably wouldn't like their lyrical content or them as people either.

[sinmantyx]

I do speak against it...but I don't pretend that people have a responisbility to act against something that they do not feel is wrong. It's not a question of responsibility at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh I see where you are coming from. This is true I suppose. If an artists does not see that it is wrong, then how can you hold responsibility for doing it? Right?

I tell you though, I give the media machine more credit than that. I would hazzard a guess that the primary offenders know damn well that they are having a negative impact and not caring all the way to the bank. (...but I'm cynical like that.)

The question is, should an artist (assuming they are not completely devoid of any ethical compass) hold the responsibility for what they produce, should the companies that market that media hold responsibility, or should we hold nothing against them because "the kids are buying it"? It is about responsibility, not responsibility imposed, but responsibility taken upon yourself.

[Scary Guy]

Nazi-ism is against the law in Germany.  Making racist comments is against the law in much of Europe. 

I don't consider these Countries to be Fascist or Orwellian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or to have freedom of speach.

One of the greatest thing about this country is if the Neo Nazi's or the KKK or the Black Panthers want to have a rally they can, just so long as they're not hurting anyone doing it.

Reminds me of the quote "I might not like what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

[Blackmail]

As far as that goes, I used to play (and still do on occasion) music I don't like at the club all the time.  I might not agree with the content but if it gets people onto the floor then so be it.  I'm not being paid to impose my moral judgement on the crowd.  In your scenereo it depends on how many homosexuals are a part of the clientel that night.  But that's like any music speaking out against a group of people or religion.  The Electric Hellfire Club comes to mind, among others.

However a good example is Marilyn Manson (but reversed).  I like his musical content but don't necessarily like him as a person.  Call that one a guilty pleasure I guess.  Although it doesn't directly apply because the imaginary band you mentioned sinmantyx I probably wouldn't like their lyrical content or them as people either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you would play a song called 'Kill All Gay people' as long as people danced to it?

I used to DJ in college radio (big deal, right?) and I don't care if I had 100 requests to play a 'Kill all Gay People' song, I wouldn't do it. Even forced with being fired I would not do it.

[sinmantyx]

Nazi-ism is against the law in Germany.  Making racist comments is against the law in much of Europe. 

I don't consider these Countries to be Fascist or Orwellian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't agree with those laws. But you are right, a law or two does not change the general culture of an area.

I know one of my German acquaintances wanted to smuggle the Star Trek episode with the Nazi's in it into Germany. That's so bizarre.

One of my friends got hundreds of dollars worth of game books and "accesories" confiscated at the Canadian border. (Funniest thing: the books were printed in Canada.)

[Scary Guy]

So you would play a song called 'Kill All Gay people' as long as people danced to it?

I used to DJ in college radio (big deal, right?) and I don't care if I had 100 requests to play a 'Kill all Gay People' song, I wouldn't do it.  Even forced with being fired I would not do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I would not care all the way to the bank. I'll especially not care if they tip me 20 bucks to play it.

I get enough requests to play things I hate. I'm not proud of it, but I like to eat too.

[BrassFusion]

Nazi-ism is against the law in Germany.  Making racist comments is against the law in much of Europe. 

I don't consider these Countries to be Fascist or Orwellian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So they've sacrificed freedom of expression in favor of not offending people. I don't think it's a very good trade, because if you have a racist who can't express himself, that won't make him any less racist. It might make him angrier. And what good does it do to shelter the people who would be sensitive to it?

It's one thing to discourage the musical glorification of racism, sexism, and other baddies, but it's another thing entirely to ban any racist comments in public. They may not be Orwellian, but they don't have firm laws in place to prevent that sort of society from happening, like we do.

[Paper Hearts]

Oh I see where you are coming from.  This is true I suppose.  If an artists does not see that it is wrong, then how can you hold responsibility for doing it?  Right?

I tell you though, I give the media machine more credit than that.  I would hazzard a guess that the primary offenders know damn well that they are having a negative impact and not caring all the way to the bank.  (...but I'm cynical like that.)

The question is, should an artist (assuming they are not completely devoid of any ethical compass) hold the responsibility for what they produce, should the companies that market that media hold responsibility, or should we hold nothing against them because "the kids are buying it"?  It is about responsibility, not responsibility imposed, but responsibility taken upon yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, again, I believe it would be more unethical to impose responsibilites on particualr artists or their outlets. Do I blame the avenues that (what I consider to be) poor art reaches us from? Of course, but I also think that raido and television are somewhat amoral, as well the art museum. If there is an audience for art then it's something a lot of people can relate with...and that is the fault of environment to me. People can't be entertained by things they find uninteresting.

[sinmantyx]

And I would not care all the way to the bank.  I'll especially not care if they tip me 20 bucks to play it.

I get enough requests to play things I hate.  I'm not proud of it, but I like to eat too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harsh.

If you knew it would anger the clientele, you wouldn't play it I assume, even if a small portion of the group wanted to hear it.

I tell you though the first time I heard "Faggot" at the club I was confused. My reaction was, "omg -- is *that* what he is saying?" Since, I have learned more about the group and feel better about liking that song. I bothered to try to "get it".

Dave Chapelle said a pretty powerful thing once though, "These sketches in the wrong hands can be dangerous!"

Without context, the song is just someone yelling hate speech over and over and over again.

[Scary Guy]

Harsh.

If you knew it would anger the clientele, you wouldn't play it I assume, even if a small portion of the group wanted to hear it.

I tell you though the first time I heard "Faggot" at the club I was confused.  My reaction was, "omg -- is *that* what he is saying?"  Since, I have learned more about the group and feel better about liking that song.  I bothered to try to "get it".

Dave Chapelle said a pretty powerful thing once though, "These sketches in the wrong hands can be dangerous!"

Without context, the song is just someone yelling hate speech over and over and over again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not that I like MSI anyhow, but there are a ton of songs out there that people aren't going to like or agree with, no matter what. It's that whole "you can't please everybody" statistic, so you just go for the majority. If a majority of people are requesting said song then I'll probably end up playing it. If it's two skinheads in the corner that just happened to show up, they can go fuck eachother to the song in their car for all I care, unless they tip me that 20 bucks.

It's 20 bucks, I'm not going to complain. Fedja (Bosnian ex bouncer from when I was at Mephisto's) wants to hear certain songs, he tipped me 5 bucks a song. Yeah I'll throw down "Billie Jean" by that child molestor for 5 bucks. That's two gallons of gas in my car or a fast food meal.

Besides there are a lot of songs I will play even though I don't like the lyrical content. If it's a good song musically, who cares? I'm not really listining to the lyrics anyhow.

[sinmantyx]

Not that I like MSI anyhow, but there are a ton of songs out there that people aren't going to like or agree with, no matter what.  It's that whole "you can't please everybody" statistic, so you just go for the majority.  If a majority of people are requesting said song then I'll probably end up playing it.  If it's two skinheads in the corner that just happened to show up, they can go fuck eachother to the song in their car for all I care, unless they tip me that 20 bucks.

It's 20 bucks, I'm not going to complain.  Fedja (Bosnian ex bouncer from when I was at Mephisto's) wants to hear certain songs, he tipped me 5 bucks a song.  Yeah I'll throw down "Billie Jean" by that child molestor for 5 bucks.  That's two gallons of gas in my car or a fast food meal.

Besides there are a lot of songs I will play even though I don't like the lyrical content.  If it's a good song musically, who cares?  I'm not really listining to the lyrics anyhow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can imagine DJ'ing is a difficult bussiness. At least you're up front. I can definitely respect that.

[Scary Guy]

I can imagine DJ'ing is a difficult bussiness.  At least you're up front.  I can definitely respect that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed, the main job is to please the crowd, and I intend to do a good job no matter what the consiquences may be (unless it goes against the format of the night that is, but that's what I'm brought in to do in order to please the desired clientel).